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12:04 AM
I think that making Chat rooms fairly disposable is somewhat crucial
 
12:17 AM
Disposable?
 
Disposable. Easily able to be used and thrown away
I'm thinking like Wave here
I am in a chat
A bunch of guys start talking in a different direction than everyone else
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to create another chat room and talk in there
but not have to worry about the fact that you can't delete it
Currently all the chat rooms aren't able to be deleted
So if you make a new one, it is there until a mod decides to clean it up
But if you made it so that it was really easy to create and delete chat rooms, then people that start talking about different things could break off into their own chat room
 
12:33 AM
@cha I support aging and auto-deletion of old rooms, depending on how much chat they have and how old it is
2
 
@Jeff Might it be worth having an archive of transcripts of now-dead rooms that were active in their day? I don't know whether people would look back on them though
New feedback point: I think the "Rooms you've been active in" update on the profile might be a bit too noisy to be useful, though it might be better with more regular visits. At the moment it's telling me there is a total of about 10K messages I haven't read, which I'm not about to go through.
I'm not sure of any ways to update it to improve it though
Maybe make it explicit that you want to follow certain rooms, rather than just because you pop your head in to see what they're about mean that you automatically have them added?
 
Where does that show up @Margaret?
 
@Chacha102 If you're on chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/rooms and click your username
Possibly elsewhere, as well, but that's the most obvious
 
I would rather it give me updates for the rooms I've favorited
 
12:53 AM
Yeah, something like that seems like a better way
 
0
Q: On the Chat 'Catch-Up' Page, Show Messages from Rooms that I've Favorited

Chacha102Right now if you go to the catch-up page, you'll see that it gives you messages from rooms you've been active in. Because that list could get really large really fast, it would be much more in my interest if you would only display new messages form rooms I've starred. This would let me control ...

 
1:18 AM
@Chacha102 Upvoted.
 
1:41 AM
@Chacha102 The current FAQ actually reads like that is how it works now, depending on your reading of "your rooms" of course.
 
@Mark I don't think that that's how it currently works, since I don't think I've ever starred a room
 
Minor FAQ typo not worth opening a Meta post for: "room" is missing from the last sentence of the second paragraph of "How can I discuss a particular question?" - "If there is an existing [room] for ..."
@Margaret I didn't think that was how it was implemented, just how the FAQ could be read.
 
Yeah
 
Is there a summary of the changes from the "private" (passworded at least) beta somewhere?
One is clearly the auto-completion of @ reply names.
 
No, don't believe there is a list
Some features Jeff doesn't even know alot
 
2:17 AM
You know, with the auto-complete replies here, it makes it weird doing replies on the actual site
Need auto-complete on site!
 
Does anyone know why the "Chat is here" room is a darker colour on the room list? img697.imageshack.us/i/chatishere.png (Feature request: Document?)
 
its locked
 
@Chacha Maybe a "Lock" icon or something might be helpful in indicating as much?
 
sec
in Chat feedback, 2010-08-03, by Chacha102
Wouldn't that be better signified by a lock symbol?
in Chat feedback, 2010-08-03, by Jeff Atwood
lock icons are also used for private and the rare, hidden rooms
in Chat feedback, 2010-08-03, by Shog9
so wait, the locked rooms are gray, and the hidden rooms are visible (but have lock icons)?
 
Maybe just the text "locked" then
 
2:21 AM
I really like this quote thing
would be nice if we could do a chunk of it
 
2:57 AM
I'd like a refresh button or something to confirm the system is still up when no chats have appeared for a while. I know it used to mention long pauses when a new chat is added (i.e. I'm expecting something to appear above this chat now), but there is no visual indication everything is still working.
Nope, unless it appears in a different context, that feature appears to be gone.
 
it does, your pause is not long enough. and pauses only get inserted before a new message anyway.
 
Hi Jeff
I really like what you are doing with this monster you have created
(no negative connotation implied)
Monster was a bad choice of words...
 
yes, now it takes up even more time :)
 
Haha, well, It's supposed to be your full time job
well, that, and your wife
and you kid
:P
 
3:18 AM
The chat tool is nice, but there isn't the critical mass for interesting conversations atm
That is the main issue
 
@case Yeah
it is kinda quiet
 
well it is a staged rollout
we need to make some more changes for tonight and tomorrow anyway
I just put up the header on meta
and I'll blog about it later tomorrow
 
I think it is a great idea
I just am not sure if I can find time to chat during the day
if a feature is added to make it easier to jump into (and out of maybe) cant, that would be nice
 
wok from home ;) if you can get into that situation you're golden
 
3:24 AM
takes some adjustment, but you get so much more done it's ridiculous
i don't think anyone realizes how distracting an office is until you can go without for a while
 
Hello, I'm back
 
I would have a hard time motivating myslef
hi
 
4:23 AM
Hello, anyone here?
 
I'm here :p
 
 
2 hours later…
6:23 AM
great work.
 
Greetings from food&cooking. A few questions: 1) What will keep Chat from be used to ask and answer questions. 2) Why many rooms rather than a few. 3) Why is this better than private messages?
 
1) Nothing 2) This is a Temp System. Eventually all the topics will be on different sites. 3) Yes.
 
@balpha whenever you're around, I'm back from holiday and still have the same problem with popups disappearing, if that's of any interest to you at this time.
 
He's on holiday, but can you describe the problem?
 
@Marc, Good for him :)
If I click on a user, or the 'gutter', the popup shows then disappears immediately
The only popup that 'behaves' is the sound one
 
6:35 AM
How about the "help" one?
 
and the rollovers on 'other rooms you're in'
ehm, where's that then?
 
bottom right
 
oh, got it, '
that works
 
also: browser/device combo?
 
FF3.6/XP (in french FWIW)
 
6:37 AM
Ah, that's it then. It'll be getting confused over commas and periods ;p
Let me refresh myself on that code [nips off]
 
hang on
just had a brain fart
disabled greasemonkey
now it seems to work :(, sorry
 
Ah; greasemonkey
 
I'll try and work out which script it was, could be of interest if you get same remarks from someone else
 
interesting; if you happen to know what specific script it conflicted with, that would be very useful. Perhaps a popup blocker?
although that doesn't make sense if the other ones work...
 
5
Q: Script: Infinite Scrolling of Answers (Now supports voting)

Jonathan SampsonScript Source (as of Thursday, July 23, 2009): http://www.sampsonresume.com/labs/infinite-scroll-on-answe.user.js Requested By: @jasonh - ad-infinitum scrolling for questions like google reader Details: This script will auto-append the next page of answers (if such page exists) to the bottom...

It's that one, which defaults to stackoverflow
If I disable it on chat, popups work
If I enable it - I get the symptoms I described
I'll let you work out if it's worth doing anything about it, or if it is even true that that is the problem.
 
6:45 AM
This might be too soon for UI comments, but I'm not sure it's useful to have each comment auto-highlight on mouseover, particularly since you can't 'do' anything unless you are on the left-side arrow. It's a little busy to have the constant flashing. Seems either the whole comment should have some active functionality, or the whole tag shouldn't be highlighted.
...Maybe only the left side gray-box/arrow should highlight and not the large rectangle around the comment.
 
@Ocaasi, I think it's about discoverability, if you didn't have that, you wouldn't even notice that there was anything in the margin
 
@Ocaasi - you mean the border as you move around? a tricky one; we actually added that to try to make it easier to identify individual posts.
In at least one of the earlier previews (possibly both) there was no border.
 
Hey Marc
Awake so soon?
 
And no: it is definitely not too soon for UI comments ;p
@Chacha I'm nearly 2 hours into my working day ;p
 
@marc Did you sleep for 45 minutes or something?
 
6:48 AM
I like it, but it happens a little more often than I expect. I'm thinking that the gray side vertical sidebar would constantly highlight when mousing over 'any' part of the comment, but just the sidebar. That way it would be somewhat peripheral.
 
that is how it used to work ;p
 
could you get rid of the background and just have the arrow?
and get rid of the dotted border?
and invert the color of the arrow
 
@Chacha - actually, I'm still getting used to the longer sleeps ;p In a previous life (before I worked for SO), I had a very long and very early commute.
I'll run it past our designer ;p
 
and maybe get rid of your avatar
 
Thanks. Great responsiveness, but I guess that's what you guys do.
 
6:50 AM
not everyone's avatar
just yours
:P
 
what, the big one in the bottom left?
or me, specifically?
 
no. Yours. As in @MarcGravell
 
@MarcGravell, here's a super minor UI 'bug' then, I spent a while wondering what time zone vst was, until I realised that it was yst, but the bottom of the y is covered if you have a whatever-you-call-those-magic-includes. There was an example on Gaming, but it's just scrolled out of range.
 
lol. I see jeff hires based on the ability to find Internet Meme pictures and videos
 
6:52 AM
there's a compulsory course with an exam
 
Cause nearly every moderator can pull out a vid/pic at the drop of a hat
 
Minor UI. Righthand panel. If you increase the feed of starred comments, the scroll-bar is a little awkward. It doesn't size to the visible area, but to the area 'beneath' the frame. The scrolling works, but it would be more intuitive if the bottom of the scrollbar was in view.
 
status-reproduced
 
honestly, it would be nice if I could get rid of the starred widget and just have the other rooms expand to fill the entire thing
 
I'm new to this site and to programming. Please translate for poli-sci major. That means you can see it?
 
6:56 AM
yes
reproduced means he is able to do the same thing
 
gotcha. i saw the status-norepro tag, I just wasn't sure about the opposite
 
usually the first step towards fixing it
 
Generally when trying to figure out something is wrong, you first reproduce it, and then keep reproducing it, trying to track the problem
 
I guess my life is still in the status-reproduced phase.
Yup, still there.
 
ok, possibly bad taste, but geek humour.
 
6:57 AM
Cute.
No bad taste. I just have to squint to read it.
 
we need to get 2 more people in this room
to see if it overflows on the rooms list
 
@Chacha102, don't think so, just make your browser window smaller, no?
 
I think he means in the room index
 
yeah
rooms list
 
ah, ok
 
7:00 AM
where it has all the avatars
3 more users and we will go onto the next line
 
working on it...
 
0
Q: There is no page navigation or user search on chat's users page

Juha SyrjäläThere is no page navigation on chat's users page. Only one page of users is shown. I assume that chat has more than 35 users. Also user search like on main sites would be nice (Type to find users:).

 
two more now that Jeff has joined
 
he hasn't really joined
 
nope
just got smaller
 
7:01 AM
happy?
 
yes
the avatars get smaller when you get to the breaking point
 
The dying avatar animation is a bonus. Who fought to get that on the to-do list?
 
what that horizontal dotted line means?
 
That is the final size, though. They don't go smaller than that.
 
ah
 
7:03 AM
dotted line: See the faq
 
between marc's "he hasn't really joined" and chacha102s "nope" comments
 
so there is a possibility for overflow
see the FAQ
 
@MarcGravell Might I suggest making the boxes a little larger so there is some sort of border between the bottom row of avatars and the box?
 
Maybe I'll do a crib image - lots of arrows etc.
@Chacha - could do, indeed
 
7:05 AM
wonderful
Well, I'm going to bed
 
@Juha - specifically, that means it isn't sure you've seen those messages; maybe you went away to look at the room index?
night
 
I'll see you all in 8 hours
 
Minor UI. Right-panel, top. Duplicate paths to the [all rooms] page, through either "all" under 'we want your thoughts...' or through "more rooms" at the right corner. Both necessary?
 
@Ocaasi, it's confusing, but (all) relates to leave
so if you click on it, you leave all rooms
 
how to add SO questions here .
 
7:07 AM
oh. that is confusing. that's why I got logged out, then. I see it better, but the parentheses are 'very' faint, as are the | between words
 
@Naveed - Do you mean as part of this chat, or do you mean a new chat specifically about a single question?
 
@naveed just paste link here in a own message
 
If I want to discuss about a SO question here with someone then what are the options to place that question here. I just have to place a question link here ?
 
@NAVEED, read the end of the faq (link available at top of rooms page)
 
Well, this room is chat feedback, but you can create a new room and just paste in the question URL. Eventually it will be linked from each site (to create a room directly from a question)...
...however, this chat site is for meta, so the "create a room from a question" only works for meta questions here. If you see what I mean.
But this is also the public beta; so go ahead - create a room and drop in the question url. For example, if I drop in: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3403337/how-to-disallow-var-keyword-under-net-2-0-target, I get:
0
Q: How to disallow var keyword under .net 2.0 target?

DixonDI created new project in Visual Studio with target framework. But even if I left somewhere var keyword Visual Studio successfully compiles project. Is this the correct behavior as var is 3.0 feature? Is there any settings to prevent code with var to be compiled?

 
7:12 AM
@MarcGravell: Thanks for detail information.
 
@NAVEED, sorry I misread your question
 
@benjol: No problem
 
Could you add link to faq to above avatar icons to side bar?
 
The FAQ is available bottom-right, labelled "help"
 
@MarcGravell Great implementation on the auto-suggest @user feature. Very easy.
 
7:15 AM
All credit to @balpha there; I did the first version (using the jquery autocomplete plugin); the version we had to excise at the last minute before the previous beta because it was too unstable ;p
 
May be there should be a "discuss in chat" link for each SO question. When owner of question click that link, a chat room should be created with question title. Its just a suggestion.
 
That is the plan; but simply:
a: this is the beta, and
b: this is meta ;p
But! take a meta question and add "chat." to the start of the url
There is also a Greasemonkey script available (see the meta post announcing chat) that does this for you.
 
So eventually every question on every SO site, parent or meta will have a chat room?
 
No; every question will have the option of having a chat room. I don't imagine that every question will warrant a live discussion, but it seems a useful scenario.
 
It seems very convenient, but I'm not sure why there's not more concern about people actually hashing out detailed answers live, in chat, where the feedback will be immediate, and the answer essentially hidden (at least from searching on main).
 
msw
7:19 AM
/me lurks and tests for /me command existence - and edits in an extremely mild note of disappointment
 
/me ???
 
/me
What? Didn't do anything
@Ocaasi: I agree. We really don't want the answers to end up in chat
Chat seems to be better for the questions we can't ask on SO because they are discussion questions
 
I should read the FAQ, and feel free to just point me to it, but is there an explicit instruction to only use chat for discussion and not actual answers.
 
msw
@Ocassi: because the FAQs are so well read and adhered to?
 
Well, at least it's codified somewhere. I bring it up more, because it would be an instruction moderators would have guidance on, and clear support to enforce.
 
7:25 AM
It would be desirable to extract any "answer" data back out into Q&A; however, doing this in an automated way would be... tricky. I'm open to suggestions on how people think that should work.
 
I don't think it can be automated. But good users can a) commit to cutting and pasting or refactoring their results onto Q&A and b) moderators can discourage/penalize not doing so. It's kind of a free-rider problem. Any individual could get a fast answer on chat, but then the rest of the community will be deprived of it.
These communities work because users are basically trusted and interested in the 'general welfare', but SO has traditionally been pretty limited when it comes to outlets for deviance. Chat is a whole new ballgame. I don't see any built-in or even agreed-upon limitations to keep it from interfering with the main community.
@MarcGravell I'm changing my pessimism about automation. Why not just include an option in the gray sidebar dropdown which says "Move to main" (or whatever the Q&A area is called. Then it could automatically cut and paste that post as an answer.
 
Don't forget rep
that's got to be a motivating factor for moving an answer to SO, no?
Or are you more worried about people asking the questions here?
 
Well, technically 'here' won't exist until the question is asked, at least not if it's the chat.question url. But I think it's more likely that a point of disagreement or confusion will get hashed out in chat and not incorporated back into the q&a
 
Well, isn't that the whole point of chat? hash out the details in the backroom and keep the shopfront tidy
 
@Marc Maybe not strictly automated, but a button to "push" a chat comment back as an answer to the most recently posted question? It could be just that the pre-typed text is copied into the "answer" textbox so the person can check it over then click "submit". Or it could be added to the arrow menu.
 
7:35 AM
yeah, we need to make it easier.
 
Question: would the one-click option to copy a post have to be limited to the comment's author?
@margaret I like the idea of not having it post automatically but instead just paste to a textbox
 
All are possible options.
 
Minor UI. Right panel, bottom. The text "logo c 2010 stack overflow" wraps to the next line with "services, in" would be cleaner all on one line.
 
@Ocaasi - what browser / device / screen-size? It is on one line of there is enough room...
 
Firefox nevermind. Had my text size up ctl+
 
7:46 AM
@MarcGravell, I really wonder if it's worth changing the help link, even when you told me it existed, it took me a while to find it - my eyes lost it in the logo. The places where I would look for it are : top right (with the leave|etc commands), bottom right (before legal), or just next/under the Send button.
 
agreed. next to the logo is unexpected and kind of distant.
 
@MarcGravell: nice work on the chat since the pre-beta :-)
 
Minor UI. Avatars. Clicking for more information is a bit 'surprising'. I expect a link, but then find it's an image; the pop-up text only says the name, not what clicking on it will do. Maybe the popup text should say User Info or something more than just the name?
2
 
Maybe near the send button makes more sense
I guess in part the reason it isn't there is that I have a debug mini-display there ;p
(constantly tells me server times, system messages, etc)
@Ocaasi - (avatars) fair point; does that apply equally on the left gutter as well?
 
8:02 AM
actually, I was only thinking about the left gutter. i didn't realize the right avatars were clickable until a second ago.
 
what confused me is that on the left there is no pop-up text...?
Oh right; yes there is - my mistake.
the image has text; the name doesn't
will work on that. Just fixing some other things first ;p
 
Sure, just glad someone's writing stuff down. This development cycle is fast.
 
FWIW, Marc, I quite like the "click on the image, get user info" functionality. It seems quite intuitive to me.
 
Agreed on the functionality. Just unsure about the pop-up text.
 
I see what you mean. I'm not sure what the best thing to do would be. You could have something like "CraigTP - Click for Info" but that tooltip could get rather large with some longer usernames.
 
8:10 AM
Really minor UI. Starring feature. If you try and star your own post (shame, shame), the pop-up just says 'forbidden' but doesn't say why (unlike, say, voting for your own answer on Q&A)
 
(new line in the popup; not a problem)
 
Do you think the new-posts dotted line could have a pop-up text. It is a very useful but initially surprising feature. Maybe if scrolling over it prompted 'Posts since you left' or something like that, it would reduce FAQs.
 
Oh go on then.
Some really good feedback today.
 
Right then...While we're at it, and since Marc is in such a receptive mood, I'd like pony, too! :)
 
2 ponies.
 
8:16 AM
sorted
 
Oh noes... On second thoughts... Hold the ponies! :)
 
mmm just wondering , does all sx sites have a chat room already or it must be created/requested...
 
it is limited to meta for the beta
the plan is per-site
 
i know but i meant, currently there is a few rooms like for example gaming ... but i actually wanted the dev-gaming one :(
but there isnt one oh well :P guess we got to test and wait out for it after beta
 
oh a room?
 
8:21 AM
yes ;)
 
You can create your own rooms...
sorry - you did say "room" - I just missed it
 
i will forgive you this once .. humf humf don't let it happen again ...
 
if the option doesn't appear on the room index, there may be a rep limit.
can't remember at the moment
and I need to go to the post-office to send something ;p
 
i guess i don't have enough meta points for it perhaps ...
 
I think I'm all out of criticism. I will second my short-list of requests: darkening the right-panel background text behind leave-all-transcript...; improving the FAQ documentation to emphasize that chat is for discussing and not answering questions; and considering going back to no individual comment borders. Otherwise it's perfect. Thanks for the taking so much feedback!
strike the
 
8:25 AM
Marc - Regarding the info pop-up when clicking the gravatar. There doesn't seem to the user's rep included within the pop-up - You can of course click the "user profile" link to open a new browser window to get it, but I think it would be nice to show the rep in the pop-up.
 
You mean the image-text or the pop-up itself? I see reputation underneath the image. You have 207.
 
oh nvm Marc i actually found it, it wanst being displayed on the index listing all rooms dont know why ...
 
I notice that rep is sometimes displayed next to chat entries, however this doesn't seem to always consistently display? Is there some logic to this?
 
@Prix testing for reputation
 
@Ocaasi - I meant the actual pop-up itself. I can see your rep, too (101), but it not there on all of your entries. (it's on your second to last one, but not your last one?!?!)
 
8:27 AM
nope, @feature doesn't prompt reputation
 
@CraigTP mmmm
 
agreed, it's only on the last entries. and, it's no there for Prix
 
well a few messages above i can see 101 below your name Ocaasi
 
not
I know, pretty pathetic. But i'll work on it.
 
lol :P gl with that
maybe is the size of the text ? as it grows it will eventually displays extra information ?
like having it multi-line like this ?
since the avatar also grows
yeah that is it
 
8:29 AM
yup!
 
@Prix - Ah ha!!!!
 
BINGO :)
 
Field-test complete.
 
I don't like the inconsistency, though, and it's not obvious :(
 
i just notice that the time goes the same way it does not display for each message
 
8:31 AM
I kind of like reputation not being immediately visible, but it seems like if it's not going to be visible all of the time, it should just be a part of the info which is displayed when you click on an avatar.
 
I definitely think adding it to the user's pop-up info is worthwhile. It seems logical to find that kind of information in there.
@Ocaasi - Agreed!
 
I wonder what happens if you hit 5 lines or longer. Maybe it starts listing my relatives.
 
Let's try.
I'll stop at 10.
3
4
5
6
7
 
too much suspense.
 
Stopping now... Keep hitting the anti-cr*pflooding!
 
8:33 AM
mmmm i dont think you need that much
i guess about 4 lines is all you need
3
 
@Prix - I'll create a room for you...
 
see :P
 
After three lines the name slips under the avatar. It's a little weird. Why not just keep the side-image constant.
 
Still, it seems nothing changes when > 5 lines
 
Marc i found it already but thanks
 
8:34 AM
Yes, there's a limit.
 
@marc What's the deal with the shifting left gutter text/rep?
 
it changes here after 3 to 4 lines
div issues :P buahahah
 
I feel like not knowing or having to know what that means makes me very fortunate.
 
it displays more if there is more space...
am I misunderstanding the question?
(bigger avatar etc)
 
8:36 AM
sort of, from what i saw we start small with our avatar and info
and as we put in more text
and make it grow
we get to see the extra information
aswell, such as the reputation
 
no, that's the question. i think we're trying to figure out if it was intentional, or if the reputation should be in another place.
 
i belive if some one wants to know your reputation they should click your "name/avatar" to see the extra information
i know it does not list rep in there right now but it would be what i would look for
 
I'm thinking the other way around: We might even display more of the user's flair
like badges
I mean, it's still a supporting site for the parent stack exchange site
 
well im out ... have a nice day everyone :)
 
back again, I agree with Prix, the rep should display in the user's pop-up info window that displays when the avatar is clicked.
after all, indication of being a moderator (i.e. Marc's diamond) is displayed there already. Just seems the most logical place for it.
 
8:45 AM
ciao Prix.
 
I agree it could be there as well -- that doesn't mean we have to drop it on the left hand side
 
roe
So this is for chat feedback, eh?
Just thought I'd mention I love the '5 hours later...' separator stuff which gets inserted when there's been a lot of inactivity. :)
 
9:13 AM
about to push a change to the entire script build; let's hope it works ;p
are we still here?
seem to be...
 
I've just come back, Marc...
 
Could you do me a favor? Reload and check you can still talk?
 
will do... hang on..
reloaded - can you see this?
 
i can
 
9:18 AM
cool
 
deployment successful! :)
 
Now that is out the way, I'll see about those hover improvements people seem so keen on...
 
Yay! :)
 
@MarcGravell: were all chat rooms and messages from the pre beta deleted or were they archived (just out of interest)?
 
9:36 AM
which one ;p
The first beta was archived to a file and physically deleted; the second beta is logically deleted
I can see it; you can't. Nah nah.
 
9:48 AM
lol
I didn't know there were 2 betas. The first then, I guess (although you answered that question already) :-P
 
that was the 1-day
 
Oh, then it was the second (the 3-day one)
 
There seems to be two Chat feedback rooms. This one (77) and the one mentioned in faq (14). The latter is only available to nominated users.
 
I was thinking of setting up a room for discussing unanswered questions or somewhere people with low rep could ask for someone to offer a bounty on their question - do you think I should wait until after the public beta? If all the messages are going to get deleted when chat goes gold it might be a bit pointless.
 
9:54 AM
Is there one in the FAQ? I'll fix that... 2 moments...
 
@Juha: Sounds like an update to the FAQ was missed. @Marc: will it be fixed or do I need to raise in MSO?
@Marc: Last section of the FAQ
 
Hmm... it shouldn't let you request access to there ;p
I'll fix that too ;p
status-rejected
(the access request)
 
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