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00:00 - 08:0008:00 - 00:00

8:01 AM
squaaaak
 
@MarcGravell I'm here now, I usually don't leave my browsers open overnight, so I'm usually nearby, but I'm busy implementing compression algorithms for silverlight :)
 
you got 2 seconds to check you can easily distinguish some images?
 
that's a seagull
oh, not part of the test, ok
 
8:21 AM
Sorry @Lasse - I got dragged away discussing layout with Jeff ;p
some urls on the way
These are pretty-much the same as the SO ones; I just want to check them for suitablilty
 
Well, ok, perhaps I misunderstood what you said yesterday then
 
and damn Jeff is right about the whitespace. Or grey-space in this case.
 
first things first, the flags are A-OK for me, they're big enough apparently to be easily distinguishable, and the added exclamation mark adds differing features as well
however, the stars, if you have two choices:

* solid stars, like you're already using
* hollow stars, like the ones showed here
then stay with the solid ones, for me, more pixels grouped together makes the color stand out more
I thought you meant solid star = starred, hollow star = not starred
 
solid vs hollow - that is what we are showing (above)
or have I missed something?
 
Let me expand on what it seems you're showing me, correct me if I'm wrong
Currently you have two stars in use, silver and gold. It appears, to me, that silver means "someone else starred this" (star list on the right), and gold means "you also starred this".
Is this a correct observation?
The silver star is also the one used in the small popout area next to messages on hover
Now, what you showed me, and your comment, indicates to me that you're looking at replacing the two, current, stars with two new stars, both hollow, but still silver and gold-colored.
My thought yesterday was that you would replace the two you have now (solid, silver/gold) with a variation, silver hollow star for unstarred, and gold solid star for starred
ie. keep your current gold star (star list on the right), but replace the silver one with the hollow silver one
As I said yesterday, my main problem with my color blindness is not that there's a lot of colors I don't see, but mainly that contrast is a problem
So red/gray/black, unless there's wide swatches of them, can be a problem (red links intermixed with black text for instance)
 
8:35 AM
@lassevkarlsen yes
@lassevkarlsen the gold isn't hollow; well... it is hollow*ish*, but not hollow
 
ok, let's move
 
we should move this to Chat Feedback room: chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/rooms/77/chat-feedback
 
sorry, you are right
 
don't make me put you in timeout, mister!!
 
8:48 AM
Morning
 
Hello there.
 
 
4 hours later…
12:26 PM
@jeffatwood I don't know why but I don't feel welcome here
 
@johntheseagull We should have OPs and kick @JohntheSeagull
 
/mode #TheTavern(General) +o @LasseVKarlsen
 
There we go
/kick @JeffAtwood
* damnit *
 
12:47 PM
@TomWij morning. I see you are opting for revenge
 
Morning. ^^
 
@TomWij I'm testing something, could you please wait a bit and send a reply to this message?
 
How long should I make him wait? ^^
 
Monday seems OK
 
1:03 PM
@JohntheSeagull Sure, what should I reply with?
 
@TomWij that was enough, thanks
 
Is it just me, or has Lasse's gravatar disappeared?
 
It's still there.
 
weird
 
I'll refresh the cache to see what happens... Nope, still there.
 
1:17 PM
I'm feeling a bit absent today, perhaps the chat system picked up on that?
 
I see his absent gravatar
 
 
2 hours later…
3:26 PM
Home now and it's fine, it must just have been at work. the connection was a bit flaky this afternoon.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:54 PM
@balpha I noted that you updated "Not a Real Question"
status-NotARealVacation
 
status-its-called-a-hobby
also, I'm back home as of this afternoon
 
Lol, I know you love doing the stuff, I'm just saying, vacations should be AWAY from what you do on a regular basis
 
Sitting on a camping ground, the radio is sending a "You don't need the internet while on vacation" report. Meh...
 
touche
I'd be more impressed if the radio was an improvised one made from coconuts.
 
of course!
And if you have two crickets mistaking your tent for a hotel and conversing the whole night, you can honestly say that you, in fact, were on vacation :)
 
5:01 PM
that is indeed true.
We once had to deal with a thunderstorm and a bear in the same night.
And by "deal with" I mean "cower in fear" not "bravely fight off"
 
yeah, not too many bears on Mecklenburg-Vorpommern's Baltic Sea coast, fortunately
did I mention we had crickets?
 
I was in Lancaster, PA recently and heard wierd continuous noises from trees, were those crickets?
 
probably
now which of these two ^^^ is more scary?
 
Talk to Colbert.
 
looks like the stack overflow api has been pounded too much already
consistenly failing to get games
 
5:16 PM
Maybe SO should still be datadumps. SO is more static than the newer ones, which would have a higher percentage of still active questions
 
I'll add a fallback anyway -- as soon as there are enough games that have been retrieved from the API, it doesn't matter if I fallback to one that has already be played
I mean, the API results are obviously cached
but the huge number of questions on SO make a cache hit less likely
also, a question must be at least seven days old to be considered -- so the votes, tag-edits etc. can settle
 
which is what made it seem to me like the datadumps would be a good enough option regardless.
But it's your app. You would know MUCH better than I.
 
yeah, data dump is fine -- it's just boring
 
also, my head isn't in the game right now. I've been working on updating app to run in IE6
It was built ompletely in firefox, and utilizes all kinds of silverlight jazz and whatnot.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:51 PM
-4
A: Question owner able to undelete question that was not self-deleted

Lance RobertsI don't see this as a bug, even though there are answers that don't like this behavior. A user should always be able to undelete his question. If the question shouldn't be undeleted then a moderator can lock it, and that disables the undelete button. Note that when a question is deleted with f...

I've burned all my undelete votes for the past 3 days on the stupid retag-request deletions and I have more to do. We still have a deletion problem.
(Though it is better that it was before the big change)
 
I've already stated my position on this particular issue.
I'm certainly more sympathetic to your cause re: retagging requests. though I still disagree
Would you like me to post my comments to you as an answer so that you can DV it? It's only fair.
 
@lanceroberts Why on earth are you undeleting retag requests?
 
A few reasons:
Some of them have good discussions, sometime still relevant sometimes not.
We shouldn't delete all historical stuff.
 
If there's discussion, that makes sense
 
There's a ton of rep being killed here. Jeff said he would only delete old requests under a score of 10, but he's now deleted a few dozen with at or over that score. I can afford the rep (and of course it's just Meta), but it's really not fair to those who contributed who are still trying to make 10k. See my posted question from a few days ago.
 
7:03 PM
I still can't really buy into the "rep" argument.
Getting rep for these is all well and good, but if they don't add anything beyond that...
 
You can look at the 7d deleted list in the 10k tools and decide for yourself.
 
but with the sysnonym thing. Individual retag requests aren't really useful. They're simply "completed"
 
Yeh, but there was plenty of work gone into those, and work should be rewarded.
 
It's like a receipt. After the warrantee expires, you really don't need it anymo.
 
And I would be fine if they were closed and marked [status-completed].
 
7:05 PM
Merge [blog], [blogs], and [blogging]: some discussion, but about voting not the tags
 
They need to have a deleted status that doesn't kill rep, something only the mods can do. That and being able to search by isdeleted would probably solve everything.
 
Lance, but then they encourage new
 
How should versioned jQuery tags be combined on stackoverflow?: some good discussion, voted to undelete
 
Meta users to file retag requests, which we don't want.
It is the wrong place for the discussion.
 
@Lance depending on who did the work the reputation shouldn't have been earned
 
7:06 PM
Right Shog9, the discussion isn't always relevant, but we keep loosing more history and context.
 
that's why all the Serverfault Shtuff was migrated.
 
If I get up-voted for clicking 3 buttons in the mod tools to retag then I am not doing much work.
 
Also, Diago's right, we should be deleting the retag requests of the people I don't like.
 
Rep should always be earned for good retag requests and those who did the retagging work. I always upvote those to reward for the work.
 
Kill [curiosity]: not really controversial or interesting
 
7:07 PM
Meta simply is not the right venue
 
Rep for mods probably isn't a big issue I imagine.
 
Tell that to Marc...
 
@devinb I agree. Although I think the new synonym voting system should work for retags as well
 
Merge tags [user-interface] [ui]: good discussion, voted to undelete
 
I'm sure I could have been more discriminatory. I've just been trying to undelete any with 10 rep or more.
Thx.
 
7:09 PM
Why don’t we get rid of “algorithms” and other such things ?: effectively a duplicate of Merge singular and plural tags - good riddence
Remove “problem” tag: this was kind of obvious. I don't see the point in salvaging it, other than historical curiosity.
Mass Retag Request: well, that was a fiasco right from the start... hard to discuss when there are a dozen or so tags under discussion. BURN!
 
Yeh, I like historical stuff, though if it was 'archived' (the solution I proposed above) then that would take care of it.
Yeh, I never really like the Mass Retag stuff. Should have been done one at a time.
 
Merge tags “game” and “games” on Stackoverflow ?: the plural thing again, except for one guy who apparently didn't bother to even look at the questions tagged.
 
@lanceroberts Cripes, I think you might be right.
For only one reason.
If the users can't undelete, they'll just create a new question. And that's effectively spam.
 
Remove c-programing, unix-programing, and windows-programming tags from Stack Overflow: some discussion, undeleted because it'll probably come up again
 
Actually no. that's still just spam.
 
7:13 PM
Even users who can undelete will just create another question, @devinb: the deleted ones won't show up in a dup search.
 
Well, we don't want them to. They don't belong on the site at all.
 
Please retag newbie to beginner.: I actually want this to come up again.
Oh, wait, It just Did
Ok - that's all the deleted questions with undelete votes that I can see.
Whew! Good to be back!
 
status-insincere
"Kill [curiosity]" just makes me laugh
 
The cat killed curiosity?
Also yes, I'm getting myself lost in this whole retag question deletion/undeletion discussion.
 
0
Q: Archive Questions

Lance RobertsHow about we create a new status, Archived. A moderator could Archive a question. This would allow rep from the question to still be counted, and a special search 'isarchived' could be used to find it, but it wouldn't come up in normal searches. This way old questions that aren't currently rel...

I wish the bolding would transfer with the post.
 
7:31 PM
@lanceroberts Would you be terribly offended if I shot this down too? I feel like I've been harsh today.
 
@devinb As long as you explain your points with a text of at least 780 words
 
Remarkably, I've got work to do. I don't know if I can muster that many
 
You can ask someone to do it in 2 sentences
Well the idea is not that bad, but will there be any moderator willing to look up at old question to archive them ?
 
@devinb No, go ahead, I like input.
I was mostly referring to questions that they're plan on deleting (which they have been doing a lot of lately, reference the discussion here today). They can just hit the archive button instead.
 
Are those question that problematic that they must be deleted ?
 
7:42 PM
No, they're just trying to clean the site up.
Here's my earlier post on it:
17
Q: Please stop deleting retag-requests

Lance RobertsI've noticed that retag-requests are being deleted by Jeff. This seems like a new thing and not a good one. I've seen two today that were both created by Evan (one, two) [10k only], which had a total of 14 upvotes. Now he's going to lose half his rep, when both requests were reasonable (and im...

 
You know, the real solution here is to get someone other than Jeff to delete this stuff.
There's a glut of moderators on meta - if this is actually important, it should be possible to find someone with the time to do it right.
 
the problem is in the nature of having a superadmin.
No one complains or notices all the things he's doing right. We just see them and then turn our attention to other things.
But we remember when he does anything "wrong"
And because he's so active, that's bound to happen frequently.
 
well, that's the problem with normal moderators
...and users with some moderator abilities
...and other users
really, it takes a lot to stand out for doing good stuff
I can name maybe half a dozen folks who post outstanding answers in the tags where I'm active, and of course, everyone knows Jon Skeet
 
who's Jon Skeet ? jk
 
But one of those users I just alluded to? I'll bet if you asked most folks on SO what they thought of him, your responses would be mostly negative
 
7:51 PM
I place a high premium on civility.
 
Meh
 
@shog9 That's what make Jon (and Marc) so exceptional.
 
There's an old joke about this... Not sure if I can tell it here though
 
you'd get flagged?
Bing it, I'm sure you'll find a link you could provide then remove
 
I'd get edited
here's a link:
 
7:53 PM
@shog9 got it.
LOL
Have you seen Clerks 2?
 
nope
Loved the first one too much, didn't want to ruin that
 
@devinb, feel free to edit your answer since I modded the question
 
Same story comes up.
 
yeah - like i said, it's an oooold joke
 
Great movie, but I wish they'd done it in black-and-white.
 
7:55 PM
Every time I go through older questions, I'm struck by how much editing Rich B used to do, back in the late '08 / early '09 timeframe
 
@Shog9 LOL @ the joke
 
@lanceroberts Removed downvote... must contemplate...
 
I mean, it's not even funny
 
@shog9 Rich B was actually a positive user he was just a really negative person.
 
@devinb, that's a good description (mostly, he made a few bad edits)
 
7:57 PM
But that's what I'm saying - you get someone that active on the site, and he doesn't have to be exceptionally bad... or even overly negative... to raise the ire of a significant amount of people
 
Well, it's happened twice now.
pretty much the same story, although Ban #2 had a lot less in his favour.
 
I didn't even know who he was before the whole, "edit wars" bit hit - and then, reading the blog comments, it seemed like maybe half a dozen people who were really in for him
but after that, well... It all went down-hill
 
His editing was great, a lot of the stuff I'm saying now is stuff he would've said (but shorter, and with more expletives)
But he was unceasingly abrasive.
 
so anyway... I don't mean it as a knock against Jeff when I say he shouldn't be deleting this stuff
 
Meh, questioning authority is important as long as you're not a jerk.
 
8:00 PM
I understand what Jeff is doing, since I'm a neatfreak about things too (when I find the time to be), but I think there's a better way.
 
he's gonna get flack for making mistakes because, as you say, he does enough stuff that the mistakes are gonna be larger than life as well
I'm saying it because if it's important that some of these messages be preserved
(and a few users at least seem to think so)
then it's important that someone with... a delicate touch... be involved
 
@lance I've replied to your post
 
If I can just chip in
 
Jeff doesn't have the time. And Lance, if you raise enough of a stink about this, it's not going to give Jeff more time - it's gonna become a distraction, and he'll just wipe the whole mess of questions and be done with it
 
I rarely search with tags, I use site:stackoverflow.com
 
8:02 PM
@chriss but... you're already ON stackoverflow
 
and look at my favourite tags
 
:p
 
are they actually that important
the whole subjective tag argument, google probably ignore that anyway though?
 
@Shog9, Not being a mod, I have no way of getting anything changed except with the tools I have: asking questions and the 10k tools
 
what is the main purpose of the tags
 
8:04 PM
At the risk of losing some of my meager meta rep, I decided to weigh in the subject of archiving questions.
 
I'm sure it's a losing thing anyway, since Jeff is against it, but I always feel like I have to try.
 
@lanceroberts I very much support that sentiment.
 
@devinb, which question did you reply to, I just see your deleted answer on Meta
 
@HoLyVieR should I leave your vain XSS attempt as is, or do you want your name back? :)
 
Oh, I just said "Closed and Locked" is code for "Archived"
 
8:06 PM
ah, got it
 
I can put Script in here?
 
you can clear it
was just testing
it wasn't my best score anyway
 
@devinb, ok, replied
 
@Lance, I think you (and george marian) are equating reputation with "effort" When we both know that they are certainly only roughly correlated
 
I put a lot of effort in my 10k on Meta, because I knew it would be a while before I hit it on SO, and I wanted to see the 10k tools.
 
8:08 PM
or in some cases, negatively correlated...
 
@shog9 my case :)
 
I would hunt for retag requests, answers all questions I could, and try to think of questions to ask.
I like having high rep now and not having to worry about it.
 
@devinb seen my Meta rep lately? I assure you, it's all down to lazy jokes and subtle insults
 
@shog9 I've noticed that my shorter posts get higher upvotes, even though I'm not nearly as proud of thems.
 
But yes, it's only a rough correlation.
 
8:10 PM
@lanceroberts Also, most users will lose very little, if they lose a lot, it's because they answer a lot, or because they have rep they don't deserve from a few bad (poll-style) questions.
A lof of people made their bones on poll questions, and never looked back.
I'm leaving the typo in there to anger @Shog
 
gonna have to try harder - I read past most typos, it's missing / unnecessary apostrophes and homophones that tend to get me
 
@devinb replied to your comment
 
Yeh, I have some poll rep too, but I don't really want to lose it.
 
@shog9 Ugh, I shudder whenever someone says "I read youre response to there question" or some such nonsense
 
@devinb It drives me nuts, too. Ironically, being dyslexic, I make those types of mistakes much more often then I like to admit or even think about.
 
8:17 PM
@georgemarian Bahahaha, a tragedy to have a dyslexic literary elitist.
@lanceroberts Create the "Locked Posts shouldn't show up in searches" (make sure they don't first). I'll upvote the jones out of it.
 
@devinb, make a request for locked posts not showing up in searches and I'll vote for it (as long as you point out that we'd need an islocked search (which is a request out there somewhere))
haha, good timing
 
I can create it and get all the fame for the idea
if you don't decide
 
@devinb :) It's interesting to note the divergence among dyslexics in their response to the challenges inherent in being one. My spelling is atrocious, but I still put a lot of effort into it. Others, give up on that notion and are more willing to accept mistakes (both their own and others' mistakes.) I'm trying to balance my quest for perfection with the pragmatic understanding that it's ultimately unachievable.
Oh, and I edit... A LOT :D
 
@georgemarian I accept and tolerate any mistakes. I do NOT accept or tolerate laziness.
2
 
@devinb Agreed!
 
8:22 PM
Alright folks, it's been great. I must return to my IE6
 
eww
have fun
 
LOL
where do you work to still use IE6 ?
 
citrix
 
@HoLyVieR I forget where I saw it, or what kind of sites they were talking about, but there was an article about it recently. Was it Chase, maybe?
 
@holyvier where do you work that IE6 isn't still a consideration?
 
8:25 PM
lots of companies are using IE6 and XP
mostly big corporations and citrix users
 
verified that locked posts show up in searches, just search in Meta for 'Jon Skeet'
 
@Shog9 Small business company, for client with up-to-date browser
 
lol i finally earned the editor badge on meta
 
The oldest browser we have to support is IE7
 
Sadly we still have machines running IE5 on Windows NT.
 
8:30 PM
Are those computer made of wood ?
:p
 
0
Q: Please keep locked posts from showing up in searches

Lance RobertsLet's have search not show results with locked posts in them. Most of the material on locked posts are polls, or aren't relevant to current questions. We will need to implement locked searches as per this post if we do that though, so they can still be found if need be.

 
@Lance +1
 
@HolyVier Nope. BUt they run a very important part of our DC systems. We still haven't found a product that can replace it.
We have actually got MS helping us virtualise it on Hyper-V at the moment
Although it is not meant to be supported.
 
The stations for the control system I work with is NT and W2000.
 
Great fun when you go sit in front of one and suddenly realise you can't remember how to work on them.
And 80% of the sites you need to get to doesn't support the browser.
 
8:36 PM
Ours are cutoff from the net, we just use the browser to access the Net Management software on the servers.
 
Man your lucky
you're* WHere is Shog9 when I need him.
 
Goodness, they better be cutoff from the internet.
 
Ours can't be. But the firewall access is strictly controlled
 
 
2 hours later…
10:13 PM
I wish there was some way to know that the 0/0 questions had comments on them. You have to go into them to see if there is any activity.
 
i'm loving the new english language stackexchange
very useful for someone like me who is really bad at english
 
10:43 PM
@lanceroberts eh... Sometimes, the easiest way to avoid arguments is ignorance of their existence.
 
Hello. Hows it going?
 
Hi. Jeff just asked me to join room l8r to discuss a login problem on meta.english.se. But I can't seem to find, can anyone help?
 
he might want to meet you in the Chat Fedback room
 
@loicwolff he referred to a room titled, "l8r"?
 
@Chacha102 Thank you, but what does l8r it mean?
 
10:56 PM
'later'
 
@Shog9 yes: twitter.com/codinghorror/status/21012050722 but maybe I misread?
 
l-eight-er
L-eight-er
 
ok. thanks, never crossed my mind.
 
@loicwolff oh. Well, sounds like you have about an hour and five minutes left to wait...
 
YES!
They fixed the arrow
I am so happy
 
10:57 PM
arrow? bah...
you can click-to-reply now!
 
@Shog9 right... I'll see if I'm still up, since it's already 1 o'clock in my time zone.
 
@loicwolff don't worry - Jeff is a vampire. He'll probably still be here in eight hours
 
And I thought Jeff didn't like being social..
Hey @MarcGravell !
 
Oh, YEAH! edit + click-to-reply WORKS!
 
I haven't been here for a while. Are there auto-joins yet?
 
10:59 PM
no
unless Marc implemented them in the past couple hours
otherwise, we'd all be in Bacon
 
what would you like to auto-join? your favorites?
 
Yes
 
(no, nothing implemented earlier)
That is on my list. I might tick that off tomorrow am. It isn't a tricky one, tbh.
(it is all server-side; server-side is easy - you don't have css in the server ;p)
 
CSS is always the tricky part..
 
You have no idea how close I came to screaming trying to get the overlay and new mod/star central bar working
 
11:05 PM
@chacha102 Oh, that's what you meant? I thought this was the "kick users into 'nother room" thing.
Just tell your browser to remember which tabs are open. When you re-open it, it'll re-join.
 
anyone else tried the new chome beta?
google are moving the cheese
 
I'm on the Dev Channel
So I am always on the bleeding edge
and sometimes I bleed... a lot...
 
i don't know what channel i'm on, but i get the betas as they come out
i like it though, they have simplified the UI
also i love that they have gotten rid of the whole "http" thing from urls
except now it's one more click to get the js console up, so i'm going to have to learn the shortcut
the chatroom works perfectly in it though
 
11:22 PM
@Fara Ctrl + Shift + J
 
I do the tab memory thing
 
Or right click and inspect anything..
 
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