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8:04 PM
have any of you guys looked at
 
yeah
 
I think rpg also covers the table-top versions
 
yeah, there's lots of D&D questions
 
Cool, 0 overlapping
 
@badp sarcasm?
 
8:07 PM
Nope
okay, not zero
 
serious, that name is too long...
 
it seems a bit
I wanted to ask y'alls opinion of the subjectivity
it's seems overly subjective to me, and no one but me wants to reign it in
 
?
 
2 days ago, by badp
subjective! argumentative! CLOSE!
 
all the questions on the rpg site?
 
8:11 PM
some in particular
2
Q: Best comeback answer for people concerned about RPG activities ?

Stefano BoriniI had many situations where the very fact of roleplaying triggered some concerned comment from "uninitiated", likely parents or neighbors. Some examples: a friend of mine hosted a Vampires session in a small square in his neighborhood, during a very nice summer evening. They played at candlelig...

 
Well, at the end of the day I think most of the questions will be about the human factors
You can't give objective answers on such topics, I think
 
oh I agree, it has to be more subjective than gaming, SO, etc
but it doesn't have to be ... "discussiony?"
 
It becomes then ultra important to stress how you should not downvote something if you disagree with it
However, yes, that question should be CW
 
that question makes me jealous.. I wish anyone around me would play D&D
 
@ArdaXi Where are you?
22
A: Should we have a "List of X" close reason?

AarobotHow about instead of List of X, you just add a Discussion or Poll close reason? That's really what a list is on a Stack Exchange site where answers get voted for - a poll. Most of the annoying bikeshed questions on existing sites are, in fact, polls of some sort. So how about instead of relyin...

 
8:16 PM
@CRoss Suburb of Amsterdam
 
I can't help you with Europe unfortunately
 
it's just not popular with this generation
 
I don't know about that ... we have a pretty big group at my game shop
 
@ArdaXi if only we lived closer together ;)
 
yeah, but most of those people are 10 years older
you guys are just proving my point :)
 
8:18 PM
I guess so
 
@ArdaXi that's true, even for me...
 
in my school of... 1500 people, I'd be surprised if there were more than maybe 10 that even knew what D&D was
 
one of my friends made a GM/DM app for the iphone as a project for mobile app development
 
anyway, we're off topic here (sorry)

Role-playing Games

A chat for rpg.stackexchange.com
 
You know what, discussion or polls wouldn't be that bad if they didn't pop up on the home page every time they are touched.
I think that's the main problem about those.
 
8:19 PM
@CRoss not like we have anything on-topic to discuss :P
 
They're always under your nose.
 
polls.stackexchange.com
 
@badp I don't think the visibility of a question should determine its validity
 
Concur
 
No, but less valid questions shouldn't be more visible than more valid questions
 
8:20 PM
@badp less valid questions shouldn't be more existent than more valid questions
 
If you don't see it, it might as well not exist =P
 
@badp If we wouldn't want to see it, it shouldn't be allowed to exist
 
I don't mean to say they should get 0 visibility
Consider this:
1. we allow discussion, poll, game-rec, whatever questions, but only as CW.
2. only Mr. Community can bump CW questions (with the exception of questions that became CW due to excessive editing).
 
@badp we shouldn't work around bumping imo
If we would need to work around the fact editing the question bumps it, we should not leave it open in my opinion.
 
@ArdaXi , I agree.
 
8:26 PM
Why is it such a difficult idea for people that this isn't supposed to be a poll/discussion forum?
The site was specifically meant to be great for Q&A, and BAD for discussion/polls
 
It wasn't designed to be bad for discussion/polls, it just turned out to be suboptimal.
 
listen to the early blog posts, yes it was
 
they should make it harder to have discussions
...somehow
 
So why did they allow them in the first place?
 
@badp Because disallowing them all on SO is really really difficult
 
8:28 PM
if you look at SO there are relatively few ...
about 0 discussions, and < 1% polls
 
it was designed so Q&A would not degrade into (off-topic) discussion
 
has it occurred to anyone else that almost any questions about counters or the best way to do X in a game are also subjective and tend to require discussion?
 
the thing is, upvotes should reflect the quality of the answer, not how much you like or dislike the content of it
2
 
I don't know, I usually also upvote when I was about to reply the same thing
 
@en1gmatic325 Not sure if we've ever closed a question for actually being subjective or argumentative
 
8:29 PM
@en1gmatic325 Subjective: yes. Require discussion: no.
 
most of it is: List? S&A!
 
@en1gmatic325 no: proof: (Tool assisted) Speedruns
 
3
Q: Dwarf corpse not being moved

SeamusI have a dwarf who died of thirst in my jewellers. He's been there for, like half a year now. He's a skeleton now. No one has gone in to the workshop despite there being lots of jobs assigned there, no one will move the body. I tried telling them to dump it, but no one went near it. Why hasn't an...

dup?
 
3
Q: Dwarf Fortress corpses

antony.trupeI've got a corpse in my fort spreading miasma. I build a casket, placed it, designated it as open to citizens, and almost all dwarfs have the burial skill enabled. It has a description of "This is the resting place of Olon Toraltubul", which is the name on the corpse. Why is the corpse still layi...

 
8:34 PM
different answer ... maybe we could edit it to point out how it's different
 
what it leads to:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146532
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146758
 
@antonytrupe Not at all related, the problem is completely different...
 
Agreed, Arda.
 
edit the question to match the answer maybe (include the jewelers workshop)
 
8:35 PM
@alexanderpas Yes, that would make it better
 
the older question or newer question?
 
@alexanderpas it is in there, but a bit hidden, might be a good idea
 
0
Q: what are some fps PC games that you can play on a LAN w/out external dedicated servers like steam

slimmaybe im not asking this question right, back in the day, we used to play like UT2003 i think it was and call of duty on a lan w/ some friends and we didn't need any external (outside of our lan) servers or gaming companies to play each other. So i'm not sure if me saying steam is an external de...

 
the one with the jewler (newer question)
 
@Gaming That's just a bad question
 
8:35 PM
3
Q: Dwarf corpse not being moved

SeamusI have a dwarf who died of thirst in my jewellers. He's been there for, like half a year now. He's a skeleton now. No one has gone in to the workshop despite there being lots of jobs assigned there, no one will move the body. I tried telling them to dump it, but no one went near it. Why hasn't an...

 
*GAME REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECC*
 
steam isn't even a dedicated server
holy shit
before my vote: 0 close votes
 
fire the close votes! for great victory!
 
after my vote: 3 close votes
I'd clean up that question but I don't know where to start
 
Hey Arda, you should go post your answer to this one: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/6335/…
 
8:37 PM
I'm unable to read the body of that question.
 
@JavadocMD oh right, I forgot, @alexanderpas you don't mind if I edit your answer?
 
@ArdaXi go ahead :D
 
how would you describe the manhattan method.. as the bird flies?
 
Taxicab geometry, considered by Hermann Minkowski in the 19th century, is a form of geometry in which the usual metric of Euclidean geometry is replaced by a new metric in which the distance between two points is the sum of the absolute differences of their coordinates. The taxicab metric is also known as rectilinear distance, L1 distance or \ell1 norm (see Lp space), city block distance, Manhattan distance, or Manhattan length, with corresponding variations in the name of the geometry. The latter names allude to the grid layout of most streets on the island of Manhattan, which causes the...
 
I mean in plain English :)
 
8:41 PM
 
I'll just add (This has to do with the way the game does pathfinding.)
no need to overcomplicate things
unless someone wants to ask "Why do my dwarves keep walking down 6 stairs when there's a stone 7 blocks away on the same z-level"
Done
 
@ArdaXi would be a cool question, and i would use this reference for the explanation of A*
 
it's actually important to know. You can create a much more efficient fortress with good use of the z levels
 
6
A: Can I limit my Masons to using *only* Microcline?

alexanderpasThere are two way to do this. The Stockpile Way By designating a stockpile right next to your masons workshop, and only allowing the stone you want to use on that stockpile, and removing/forbidding all other stone around the workshop, the mason will grab the stone you want him to use, as that ...

@alexanderpas that's how I learnt!
 
@ArdaXi You will need a manager. :)
 
8:47 PM
@JavadocMD I don't know about pre-'10
 
@ArdaXi Oh right, that nonsense.
 
just ignore 40d
 
has anyone else noticed training being slow in .12?
 
@alexanderpas Yeah, I doubt any newer players are going to decide to pick up 40d. If you're a 40d veteran, you're on your own. :)
 
The one thing about 40d was it had more accessible magma. I'm jealous.
 
8:49 PM
@JavadocMD dunno, 40documentation is a lot more complete
@Macha my fortress has great access to magma
 
Other than magma, I don't know any reason you'd play 40d now
 
without pumps, I even have magma in the bedrooms :)
 
unless you just love super lethal marksdwarves
 
if you want magma, you should be playing DF2010, it's EVERYWHERE
 
Toady has spoken. This is the era of the pump stack. Obey.
 
8:52 PM
@JavadocMD but... I only have to dig a small hole and have magma EVERYWHERE
 
@alexanderpas I am playing DF2010. I'm 30 levels down, not a sign of magma.
 
@ArdaXi very slowly.
 
@alexanderpas thank Armok.
 
@Macha DIG DEEPER
 
seeing as dorfs with buckets aren't very fast either
 
8:53 PM
@alexanderpas I can't. My dwarfs developed a case of idiocy, and won't expand any of my shafts. Also, cavern in the way in a lot of places.
 
@Macha dig around them
 
@Macha are you by any chance having a slade layer?
 
Yes.
 
I just dug through the adamantine vein that ran through cavern #2
oh, yeah, slade is evil
 
How so?
 
8:54 PM
you want to find the vein trough that layer, slade is undiggable.
 
literally, slade is evil
 
no spoilers!
 
Oh, typo.
 
Rated D for Dwarf
 
I have a slate layer
And I know about hidden fun stuff
 
8:55 PM
not really a spoiler, you don't get to know about the nature of slade in the game
oh
Slate is an unremarkable metamorphic stone.
 
you just made a remark about it, so its not unremarkable
uninteresting
 
I can do the impossible
 
I screwed up my burrows anyway
 
unremarkable = uninteresting :)
@Macha that might explain the problem
 
> it is not possible to mine through slade [and] the material is completely unusable in the game itself.
 
8:59 PM
What I had was a "safe" burrow and an "unsafe" burrow. So in an alert I could order them all into the safe one. But I'm trying to change it to one burrow per industry, plus a central stockpile burrow.
 
@Macha I simply lock my dwarfs in
no need for burrows
 
I prefer to let them run free. Darwinism handles the rest.
 
@ArdaXi RAISE THE BRIDGES
 
@ArdaXi Burrows make them run back in, otherwise you leave a bunch outside
which I dislike when it's my legendary woodcutter
 
@alexanderpas I can't tell you how many times they refused to raise the bridge in time. *facepalm*
 
9:01 PM
Guys when you close questions, please post comments
stop torturing guys like this: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/6399
 
I usually have a single burrow, with a single switch, located in the dining hall "get inside, you dorfs, and close the gate!"
@tzenes you might want to see the revisions: gaming.stackexchange.com/posts/6399/revisions
 
yeah, he is editing his question because he think it might become good
that isn't a real possibility
he wants a recommendation for a game that runs on lan without an internet connection
the reality is we will never provide that for him
if we say that up front, he won't waste time trying to craft that question
you all knew that was what he was trying to do, so next time please take the time to put a comment that says: not only is this poorly written, but we don't do what you're looking for here, sorry
 
I usually post comments.
 
I know @Macha
 
9:06 PM
I'm asking you continue that behavior
 
What if I told you I have an objective answer for the following question, and it isn't a list?
0
Q: what are some fps PC games that you can play on a LAN w/out external dedicated servers like steam

slimwhat are some fps games that you can play on a LAN? Not looking for games that connect to servers outside of LAN like steam.

 
revisionism
 
Got into a long debate on one question we closed. None of you lot bothered to back me up. I got accused of single handedly closing it. sigh
 
@badp what is your answer?
@Macha link?
 
@Macha link?
 
9:07 PM
Will find now.
 
you know, it might be easier if you guys just make the game-rec tag auto-close a question :-P
 
How do I search by posts I've commented on?
 
It's "Open Steam, go to Library then click on Tools. You will find a list of dedicated servers you can install for LAN play, free of charge. The list includes first person shooter titles like L4D."
 
Or cast close votes on?
2
Q: What game do you always find yourself going back to play again and again?

MattWhat game do you always find yourself going back to play again and again? Any platform, any generation. Keep it to one game per answer so others can upvote to agree.

Here we go
 
@badp I mentioned he might receive an answer like that, but I don't think that's what he wants
if you read my comment you'll see I agree
 
9:09 PM
@badp You need to be on Steam to connect to those servers without console trickery though
 
oh rly? I never tried :/
 
@badp And if it's multiplayer only, you need to be on Steam full stop.
 
@Macha we all asked him to take it to meta
I think that person didn't understand why we think subjectivity is bad
 
@tzenes Eventually.
 
Meh, then the answer becomes network-games-collection.com
or similar =)
 
9:10 PM
I"m sorry I'm not at the computer 24/7
 
HERESY
 
If I am here, and you link me I will make a dedicated effort to back you up going forward
 
This chat thing is fun. Didn't realize there was all this deliberation going on in the background. Thought we were all individual actors. :)
 
I realize you're frustrated with game-rec @Macha I know you're not the only one. I'll try to do the best I can to help you on those questions but we need to keep telling people what we do
@JavadocMD spend some time on meta.gaming
 
 
9:13 PM
@tzenes Indeed so.
 
The close police needs a place to organize its action.
 
@mana, ivo backed you up, also, it all happened really quick.
 
@JavadocMD looking at the disagreements here, we mostly are
 
Just link a question and poof! It's closed in 30 seconds, tops.
(It really needs to stink, though.)
 
@badp Past Performance Does Not Guarantee Future Results
 
9:15 PM
@tzenes: I concede the point on that one question about SC2 divisions, btw. (Didn't want to keep cluttering the comments.) If I squint my eyes and read that question, I can see it the way you see it: as a slightly different question. :)
 
I just dinged the 3k barrier.
 
I think I was trying to discern the question he was trying to ask instead of the one he did ask. I imagine he wanted this answer so he could compare himself to other divisions (or leagues) and that my answer quickly put a stop to that futile attempt, and provided him with a resource which would actually get him what we wanted
namely sc2ranks.com
I often try to answer the question I think they're trying to ask, instead of the one they actually do
 
@tzenes Yeah, I see that. I think that's a fair assumption.
 
@tzenes That's cheating!
 
what is up with this question?
1
Q: Multi-player browser-based games to play with children

hgpcAre there any online games that: Require no installation (browser based) Are multi-player and I can invite or choose who to play with Are age-appropriate for small children Have integrated chat (preferably) Context: My little sister lives abroad and is not very experienced with desktop comput...

 
9:19 PM
@badp I don't consider cheating a pejorative
@alexanderpas I wish so hard I could close that question
 
He was asking why it should be closed?
 
actually, i was being ambigous (on purpose)
 
I think I gave some good reasons in the comments
 
At the end of the day, she's looking for MSN Messenger games
 
9:23 PM
the reality is he wants a recommendation, and that the answer to which will only have value to him and not the community at large. What's worse, the people giving the answers only pick ones which have value to themselves. So there is the problem that the answer he wants is subject, and that the answers provided are subjective
 
It's a list. Like pretty much any other. Tons of kid MMOs exist.
 
I don't think she's looking for an MMO
 
We exist for serious Q&A, not as a vetted google search, or a place to collect and vote on opinions
 
@Macha browser based?
 
How does a post become "community wiki"?
 
9:23 PM
This is not a serious Q&A question
@JavadocMD either the asker/answerer can make it one, or someone who edits it can
additionally, if it is edited by 5 people more than once, it automatically becomes one
If the asker sets the question as CW, then all answers are defaulted to CW
 
@JavadocMD checkbox or enough edits from enough people
 
Ah. Why would I want to make my own question community wiki?
 
@alexanderpas Browsed based MMOs are pretty common. While not kid orientated, loads play stuff like the west, or tribal wars.
 
@Javadoc For the most part, you wouldn't
The poster can also trigger Community Wiki status on a post by editing it over 10 times excluding the first revision
(or, in simpler terms, on the 12 revision)
 
@JavadocMD to encourage the community working together for a single answer. (or to prevent downvotes being counted against your rep.)
 
9:28 PM
Really, though, please don't use CW to protect your reputation
 
Hm, interesting.
 
CW is largely designed to be used for Answers not questions
2
 
Delete your post, and/or edit it to fix what's bad.
 
@GraceNote yeah, it is real bad usage of CW
 
I'm seeing less and less reason for the OP to be in charge of forcing CW, too
 
9:30 PM
CW is great for FAQ
 
Indeed, for the Meta site, CW is quite useful
But on the parent site, if you're asking a question that might need the community to cooperate to form the answer, let the community make that decision. If one person is able to compile all that info, let them do that.
 
The problem is, cooperation keeps the question floating in the home page
artificially inflating its visibility
and actively harming other questions
 
@GraceNote like this:
 
If it's a good answer to a good question, I honestly do not see a problem with that
 
12
A: Which Fallout 3 items are sought-after by NPCs?

alexanderpas Blood Packs - For the unmarked repeatable quest I Want to Drink Your Blood, available after completing the quest Blood Ties from Vance in Meresti Station Cameras - For the unmarked repeatable quest Getting Ready for Prime Time in the Broken Steel DLC from Scribe Rothchild in The Citadel Fire A...

 
9:32 PM
Exactly like that
 
OMG! LIST! CLOSE!! !
4
 
That was a good list.
 
Hurray, we got more game-rec questions.
 
This is largely the reason why I switched to the term "repository" early on
 
puts gun on head ONE MORE REASON TO PULL THIS TRIGGER
 
9:34 PM
Lists don't require closure; lists of opinions do
 
takes gun from @mana, gives bigger looking gun in return. (abeit a bit lighter...)
 
Merci.
 
An objective repository is also poorly supported, @tzenes
 
Agreed
 
aww, they fixed the reputation report for metas
who reported that bug!
 
9:36 PM
What's that?
 
> Reputation on this per-site meta is derived entirely from the parent site; nothing to show.
 
._.
 
Well, it hasn't been too long, so you can still tally your rep by just looking at your Recent Activity with the right timestamp
 
9:37 PM
"nothing to show" should be "move along now, nothing to show here."
 
btw I never thought winning a +500 rep bounty could feel this unrewarding
 
You won a 500 rep bounty?
 
3
Q: Suggest message beeps, blips and boops for the third place (the chat)

badpWhat beeps, blips or boops should be used when for the third place? I am talking about the sound played when a message is received on chat.meta.stackoverflow.com and pals. Edit by balpha: We'd really like to get more suggestions on this. So go ahead and find nice sounds! Please be sure to inclu...

 
@badp where?
 
@alex I'm the one asking!
 
9:39 PM
I asked, I answered, balpha offered a bounty, people posted joke answers, I won the bounty by forfeit.
 
That's life
 
@GraceNote miss-click... chat moved up.
@badp I think i'm getting stuck on tonematrix for the next hour.
 
@alexanderpas have fun :D
 
You're pretty bad at not getting hooked on things
 
hacker icon gives a fun tone.
 
9:47 PM
copy paste here
 
anyone thinks this
1
Q: Multi-player browser-based games to play with children

hgpcAre there any online games that: Require no installation (browser based) Are multi-player and I can invite or choose who to play with Are age-appropriate for small children Have integrated chat (preferably) Context: My little sister lives abroad and is not very experienced with desktop comput...

is slightly a dupe of
5
Q: Free Quality Online Games For Kids/Teens

averyzoeMy kids love to play games online-what are some good online games that are free, safe, and fun?

 
I think they're both lists and need to die
 
true, but one should die as a duplicate
so that the other can then die in the honour of both...
if anything the latter should be CW
@GraceNote?
 
nite
 
G'nite, @badp
I'm rather opposed to making any question CW that I would rather not have on the site
 
9:59 PM
@GraceNote in some ways, i'm still a little kid; and i consider that one of my strengths!
 
fair enough
 
If I convert it to Community Wiki, that's saying that I think it's borderline enough to stay
 
Kill the game-rec, cut her throat, bash her in!!
 

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