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5:00 PM
@devinb: what UI?
once a synonym has been implemented, there's no more voting arrows
 
U62
ooh, I just saw you update your chat. This is better than Google Wave :)
 
oooohhh
@shog you mean AFTER it's been accepted.
Silly me. That should've been brutally obvious and yet it wasn't.
I blame sleep deprivation.
And general disintelligence.
 
no worries. I'm not being very clear this morning.
 
its still morning for you?
What strange country are YOU in?
 
9am here
 
5:06 PM
so you're in california? Seattle?
Oregon?
 
Alaska
 
huh? it's 10am in seattle
 
heh it's "only" 10 am here
 
alaska would be about the only place
 
I don't know geography that well.
 
5:06 PM
11:06 in Colorado
still technically morning
 
1:07 in Toronto. Also, it's wednesday.
 
1:07 here too
except it's just after midnight
 
@shog9 Morning is whenever I happen to wake up ;)
2
 
It's Thursday
 
WITCH!
No wait, witches can't time travel.
 
U62
5:08 PM
Timelord!
 
I think I saw that on Charmed.
Or Bewitched.
WARLOCK!
 
They can if they're 3
 
don't be deceived by his witchy deception
 
How can I not be deceived by deception.
 
Unfortunately they can only travel forward in time
 
5:10 PM
It's really the only way to deceive!
 
Usually with the help of a good amount of alcohol
 
@Lasse, aww nuts, I can't do that either.
 
I can time travel
Forward-only, with alcohol
 
We're all time traveling now aren't we?
 
Doesn't work every time, but often enough
Time travelling is about skipping periods of time
 
5:11 PM
This is a TAVERN. It is NOT for discussion of physics.
 
I really doubt there's much physics involved :)
How much wood would a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?
 
Is he unionized?
 
Unfortunately not
 
Then lots probably.
 
> Do you and your users practice safe web browsing? Avoid risky sites? Limit time spent online during work hours? Employ a rock-solid internet access policy? Use a secure browser? Have the experience to know a risky site when you see one? If you answered “Yes” to any of these questions, you need to read the rest of this report.
Quiet an inauspicious start to a white paper...(emphasis my own)
 
5:18 PM
Fortunately, I use IE6, so I do not need to read that paper.
 
U62
A tavern is for rowdy drinking and flirting with buxom wenches.
 
yeah, there's a disturbing lack of buxom wenches here.
 
I think rowdy drinking is the trick
... drink until you see buxom wenches
 
le sigh the white paper is as lame as I feared
 
5:19 PM
@balpha!! Chat needs more wenches!
 
Make that a feature-request
 
We're on the internet, buxom wenches are never far away.
I think it's impossible for them to be far away.
 
@shog9 Agreed!
 
actually, I'm hoping balpha is vacationing somewhere with lots of spare wenches
 
status-buxomwenchless
 
5:20 PM
Dammit @devinb, beat me to it
 
@devinb hum... I googled it, but Google keeps giving me pictures of Johnny Depp. The Internet is broken.
 
U62
Safesearch off
 
I'm at work, kind of in the middle of the room. can't google "buxom wenches" right now.
 
I was about to ask google what a "wench" is, but I think I'll skip that...
 
@balpha lol you don't know?
 
5:24 PM
A wench is a young woman.
but not all young women are wenches.
and not all wenches are young
 
The box with reply, flag, etc. buttons need to have space set aside for it to begin with
the "the internet is broken" message above, mouse over puts the reply button on the next line, jumpy screen
 
I don't see that jumpy screen issue.
Firefox 3.6.8
Windows
 
@shog9 i think this comment needs to be given a prominent place on meta.
 
@devinb: DO IT!
high time you proposed something useful...
 
In case you hadn't noticed, my style is to be AGAINST things.
It's about positive reinforcement. When you have a great idea, but you wonder if there might be something wrong with it. I reinforce that yes, there is something wrong with it.
 
5:29 PM
yeah, i know the drill:
comment: -1 blah blah blah - see my answer -- devinb
 
Marc's here. Maybe he's to provide the wenches.
 
answer: 4 pages of tl;dr
WENCHES!
 
@shog9 I stopped doing that. Juan was flagging them. And Jeff told me to stop.
 
oh, GOOD!
 
what did I do?
 
5:31 PM
@boltclock I think it's a matter of screen width.
 
@MarcGravell: donno... did it involve wenches?
BECAUSE IT SHOULD HAVE
 
@GeorgeMarian My browser window's at 1280x800. You're probably right.
 
See Shog's suggestion re: wenches
and I quote "@balpha!! Chat needs more wenches! - 4m ago by Shog9 ▼"
 
U62
How can I add a Sudoku to this Wave?
 
Then you appeared. So I assume you were tasked with the wench delivery.
@u62 No part of this sentence makes sense to me.
 
5:33 PM
@boltclock Mine is 1680x1050 and that message isn't jumpy on my end either. I guess 1280 isn't exactly wide.
 
@GeorgeMarian My res is the same, except I don't maximize my browser window ;)
 
If you narrow the window so that only the reply button can't fit, it'll jump down on the next line on hover
 
@devinb "Wave" like this, but with threads. "Sudoku" a crossword, but with numbers.
 
now take out a CD labeller and draw on the screen
 
5:34 PM
Oh god
 
@boltclock Heh...I'm using my GF's monitor as second display. :D Though, I tend to have my web browser maxed anyway.
 
@marcgravell Every time a new comment is made, they don't line up anymore :(
GOD! I just made it worse!
 
@lassevkarlsen fine; I'll look at that - obviously my CSS needs more hackery
 
@lassevkarlsen That's pretty much a corner case, eh?
 
Thinking of refactoring it to be honest - it is getting too complex for the current layout. I shouldn't have to fight css; it should be eager to please.
 
5:36 PM
@marcgravell I so hate fighting with CSS.
 
Eager to please?
 
or was that the wenches?
 
I'd have guessed so
 
@boltclock I won't go into the acronym that comes to mind for CSS which would be appropriate for that comment.
 
@GeorgeMarian Urban Dict anyone?
 
5:39 PM
@devinb why did they object to you leaving a comment about your vote?
 
Juan felt it was spam.
 
@boltclock There does happen to be one definition that is close.
 
guess they only want positive comments
 
Hmm...yet again I find myself chatting in here, with a feeling that I'm forgetting to do something.
 
I can't believe how many posts are being deleted, I keep running out of undelete votes. Jeff said he'd only delete those with less than 10 score, but he start deleting anything with a retag-request tag.
 
5:42 PM
How does this reply thing work anyway? I just get some numeric ID prefixed with a colon when I hit reply...
 
it changes after you submit it
 
@lanceroberts Nifty.
 
@boltclock You won't know until you try it out. :)
 
@lanceroberts Meh. I used to comment on every downvote, now I almost never do. I guess that's the requested behaviour.
 
Does anyone else here regularly answer questions on SO pertaining to a language but not actually get to code anything in that language? And have answers upvoted and even accepted?
 
5:48 PM
@devinb I would guess it has more to do with what was said that commenting on a down vote.
 
@George I was saying "(-1) for the reasons in my response"
So it certainly wasn't offensive. But arguably unhelpful.
Although more contentful than many comments.
 
@devinb What was the response?
 
Juan yelled at me, and Jeff asked me to stop.
If anyone asks me to change in order to make the lives of everyone around me better, then I can either do it or get lost. In this case, I chose to do it.
 
@devinb Nah, I meant what was your response re: "(-1) for the reasons in my response"
i.e. was it argumentative, rude, harsh, etc...
 
Lol, never.
This is on Meta particularely.
My responses are very long, and almost never insulting.
Except when I just can't help myself.
 
5:54 PM
@devinb Hehe...was this one of those cases?
 
@boltclock Not regular, but I've been able to do it a few times. Just takes a little quick research.
@George, his responses are fine and measured
 
@lanceroberts Sometimes it doesn't require research, as the question is really about an algorithm, basic programing, or other such scenarios.
 
yep, sometimes
 
@lanceroberts I've been answering Obj-C questions and getting decent upvotes without ever compiling a single line of Obj-C :/ (And this is coming from a PHP/Java/C# guy)
 
it's a gift I'll have to acquire if I ever want to see a generalist badge
 
5:58 PM
@lanceroberts Yah, I've seen some of this responses. I was trying to figure out if there was a particular one that may be interpreted as crossing the line. Generally discouraging comments for downvotes is bad, m'kay.
 
Lol, that was a long time ago. I'm over it now. The idea was that my responses were enough to indicate that I had downvoted.
 
I hate being downvoted without any explanation.
 
@george, it's ironic actually since there have been so many Meta posts from people requesting comments with downvotes
 
@devinb Was there already an explanation which may have sufficed?
 
Me too. Also, downvoting with an explanation that doesn't even make sense.
 
6:00 PM
whenever I downvote I would either say "(-1) because of blah" or if there wasn't enough room "(-1) because of the reasons in my response" and then I would write a long and detailed reason why I felt that they were wrong.
 
I never do much comment with downvoting, but I don't have problems with those who do.
 
I hardly do downvotes anyway.
What are some things that do not justify downvotes? For example I've seen questions heavily downvoted when they simply just belong elsewhere in the trilogy.
 
@devinb Maybe it was because you took it to response? Though, that is the general pattern for comments that are too long. Of course, this may be a reason where brevity is king, a la resumes.
 
that's no reason why my comment would be spam.
 
@devinb Fair enough.
 
6:04 PM
I for one, use a LOT of downvotes.
 
@boltclock One reason would be bad english, when it should be obvious enough that person isn't a native speaker and is actually trying.
 
chances are, if you're on Meta ever, I've likely downvoted you.
 
@devinb oh crap :(
 
@devinb I for one don't have enough rep to do so. I'm still gunning for 2k on SO so I can fix formatting.
That said, I haven't answered a thing on SO in a while...heh
 
I think this discussion should get back to wenches.
 
6:09 PM
@georgemarian I've contemplated doing 'capital P, dangit' edits just for that Copy Editor badge, and to prevent myself from going on a smash fest.
 
@boltclock So far, I've avoided dong anything artificial to inflate my rep. But, with so many people incapable of doing simple formatting, it's tempting.
 
@georgemarian 95% of my edits leading to my Strunk & White badge are in fact code formatting edits and nobody's had a problem with that...
 
@boltclock Well, that isn't artificial. :) Afterall, the book is titled "Elements of Style."
 
@georgemarian Eh, who can say whether someone's a native speaker or not? I just don't downvote for poor English, period. Which, now that I write it out, is odd, considering that I hate posts written with poor English and that I am not afraid to throw downvotes around.
@georgemarian My situation exactly.
 
I haven't downvoted questions in a while - and when I downvote answers it's because they're just plain wrong or don't answer the questions at all
 
6:18 PM
37
Q: We need to help non-english-speakers somehow...

Jonathan SampsonI saw a guy from Portugal today attempt to ask a rather simple question. But the question was so horribly confusing that he started getting down-voted, and close-voted. After discovering where he was from in his profile, I invited him in the comments to ask his question in Portuguese also - this ...

I wrote (at length) about it.
 
@devinb I'd be more surprised if you wrote (just an abstract) about it.
 
I went through a lot of my old answers. They were much shorter.
And less formatted.
 
@populardemand Yup, which is why I take 'em all with a grain of salt. However, sometimes you see a pattern for a particular user. I.e. it's txt spk and just obviously lazy.
@populardemand For example, the entire post is one chunk of run on sentence without any useful punctuation or capitalization.
 
@devinb it's always a minor crisis for me; I usually want to write a lot, but I find that I get tl;dr-ed a lot when I do.
 
@populardemand Sometimes it's difficult to balance the need for brevity vs the need for an involved answer.
 
6:22 PM
Indeed.
 
If anyone were to say that to me, I would say "please clarify, I don't understand those words"
 
If anyone were to say what to you?
 
"tl;dr"
 
Darn, Personal Finance and Money is still in private beta. I was gonna link a question that required a long response.
 
Why would you say that? Just don't like that particular abbreviation? Or all abbreviations? Or the implication that everything should be short?
 
6:34 PM
Well, barring a long treatise on the subject. I find glibness to usually border on insulting.
"tl;dr" is a pointedly shorter version of "too long; didn't read" which is, itself, a tactless way of saying "long answers are difficult to get through, perhaps shorter?"
Using punctuation and full sentences is a way of showing respect.
16
Or, perhaps just a way of self-identifying as a snobbish-literary-elitist-punk.
 
I agree that the sentiment is rough, but I think the abbreviation is actually a bit amusing.
 
@devinb you mean grammar Nazi? :-)
 
@devinb Especially in questions/answers.
 
@populardemand exactly.
 
@Bolt, I don't correct everyone else unless they ask.
 
6:37 PM
But anyways, I didn't mean that people directly comment with "tl;dr" on those posts (though they sometimes do). What I meant was that I get noticeably fewer votes and comments than I do when I post shorter answers.
 
@popular, similar to "What does LMGTFY mean?"
Well, boy, have I got an answer for you!
@pop I suppose that's true, but I figure that the OP will certainly read the whole thing, so I've got at least ONE set of eyes across it.
 
Agreed.
 
Also, I've managed to become infamous, so I get a little slack.
 
@populardemand Yup, I recently ran into this on some comments in a blog. My first, very short, comment received lots of votes (both up and down, it ended up at zero). However, my longer comment which basically expanded on that comment received almost 1/3 of the number of votes. (Ironically, it received more up votes.)
 
But anything I take the time and effort to think about and write down is, in my mind, good enough to benefit from more discussion.
(Which kind of goes without saying; why would I post it if it wasn't good enough in my mind?)
 
6:42 PM
@pop, (maybe there's a deficiency with your mind?? :p)
 
wonders if he may be hypoglycemic I tend to feel kinda crappy a few hours after waking up, with or without coffee or a cigar.
gets himself some fresh fruit
 
@George, I've had that problem for years, and finally got diagnosed with moderate sleep apnea. Knowing what the problem is is more than half the battle.
 
@GeorgeMarian Man, every time I come to chat.meta, I end up wanting some sort of food. At least you broke the trend of it always being a burger.
 
@lanceroberts Agreed. I haven't been tested for sleep apnea, and I do have bouts of insomnia. But, I generally seem to get good sleep and lately have made great strides back to a regular/healthy sleep schedule.
@populardemand LOL I'm about to chow down on a peach and some nectarines.
 
@georgemarian It's in the full transcript somewhere. I'm not up to finding it at the moment, though.
 
6:49 PM
I'm having some crackers right now. And why are we suddenly talking about food and sleep?
 
Hm, what ever happened to the SE medicine site? It'd have to come with a huge disclaimer banner, but would certainly be interesting.
 
Heck, the other day I woke up an hour before the alarm was supposed to ring.
 
@georgemarian Ha, I seem to beat my alarm almost all the time. Either that, or I oversleep.
 
Heh, some part of the back of my brain hates my alarm.
 
@populardemand What is?
 
6:50 PM
I frequently wake up 5-20 seconds before it's scheduled to go off.
 
@boltclock On that - don't forget Jon Skeet is professionally a Java head; his C# was mainly recreational ;p (this is not a joke)
 
I find myself waiting between a few seconds or an hour for the alarm to go off...
 
@georgemarian the burger references.
 
@boltclock LOL @ oversleeping. Waking up before the alarm is actually a good thing, as long as it's not too long before it.
@populardemand OIC
 
@georgemarian you are the first non-Singaporean I encounter use OIC. And I thought my social network wasn't localized...
 
6:52 PM
@boltclock Really? That's a rather old "acronym."
 
I wonder if any site has more ads than Tom's Hardware, it's not like the old days.
 
@BoltClock nearly everyone I knew in middle school said that.
 
@marcgravell Yeah, it's easy to forget that. Doesn't he work at Google?
 
I find myself using OIC too sometimes. Just to other Singaporeans (if you couldn't already tell that I'm one).
 
mmm..mmm.mmm I ate that peach at the perfect time. Any longer and it would've turned to wine. ;)
 
6:54 PM
@devinb Yes.
 
@devinb yes, for the last year or so
 
His profile says so ... at least last time I checked it
 
@devinb yeah he does
 
Got it. so we're all in agreement then
 
@georgemarian So what you're saying is, you narrowly missed out on free wine?
3
 
6:55 PM
Ha, I just got an answer accepted, it was to a question about Notepad++ printing woes
Turns out OP did have a printer problem.
By the way, why do people readily close "how do I do this in __ editor" questions as belongs on SU?
 
Because editors are software.
(Not that I agree. I'm just telling you why they do it.)
 
@populardemand LOL
 
I think stuff like that should stay on SO since IDEs/editors are mostly used by, you know, programmers...
 
I once had Jeff Atwood call me out for suggesting that a question about installing from source on OS X be moved to Server Fault. Only to see that he was one of the people who voted to move it. LOL
 
@boltclock I asked about that at one point, but it's not in my Meta history. Must have just been a comment somewhere.
 
6:58 PM
@georgemarian ha, what on earth.
@populardemand yeah I'm pretty sure this issue's been raised up at least once.
 
@boltclock Yah, that's what I said. He did have a point, that Apple doesn't make server software. However, the obvious point was that installing form source would likely be best answered on SF.
 

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