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6:00 PM
ull be out in a few months..
 
@RebeccaChernoff Are those elipses trying to signify that that isn't wasn't happens?
 
@RebeccaChernoff It's okay, you can write the two letter word you really meant to use there.
 
I'm just worried that this would lead to an automated question ban. To solve this problem, I feel there should be a way for a question banned user to have moderators and 10K users vote to unban - if the user has gained, say, 100 rep from new posts over the last seven days since the ban, the user should be able to request a vote to unban, where there must be a total of five votes within seven days from moderators and 10K users for the user to be unbanned.
Once unbanned, the user is immune from being banned again for seven days.
 
6:04 PM
If you are worried about it, go contribute an answer and get upvotes.
 
I think it takes less than 100 rep from new post to not get banned in the first place
 
@DragonLord You have one deleted question out of 7. I have 7 out of 35. I think you're ok.
 
Well, it admittedly stinks that the question ban is active on Meta at all.
 
This would ensure that legitimate users have a way out of an erroneous question ban while keeping bad users off the site, since at least 100 rep must be gained within one week after the ban to be eligible for this process to begin with.
 
@Pekkasseriousaccount It depends on whether or not one question is enough to trigger the ban; apparently two are.
 
6:05 PM
It's no good if you have to fear getting blocked by making unpopular feature requests.
 
They both need to be scored -10 though
 
The algorithm looks at more than that.
 
@Pekkasseriousaccount Well, there's something to be said for squelching unpopular feature requests...
 
Obviously I don't know the specifics and may be off; I don't think there's anybody who ever got a question ban on Gaming; if there is, their whines didn't reach me.
 
The algorithm considers reputation, deleted and closed questions, votes, and possibly other (secret) factors. This is all I know based on what I have read on Meta, and revealing the algorithm would only defeat its purpose.
Perhaps I'll post the unbanning process above as a feature request on Meta...
 
6:09 PM
@Dragon I really think it's safe to assume that once you gain 100 reputation from a site, you're safe from the question ban.
@DragonLord Just make sure you don't attract more downvotes. That's a risky feature request you have right there.
 
@DragonLord In certain cases, the devs will dissociate a question from you to unban you.
 
Generally feature requests are meant to address a problem, and I'm not sure that this has actually proven to be a serious one yet.
 
This has happened a couple times already, actually, for some just really nyarragabaldic questions.
 
The guidance is no different. Answer a question, get some upvotes. Don't be rude and get flagged.
 
I need to step out for about 15 minutes, please stand by...
 
6:11 PM
@GraceNote Congratulations for a 0-google word, or whatever the term for that is.
 
@Pekkasseriousaccount According to Jeff from the last time this came up, each time involved a lot of equally heavily downvoted questions, and also the only people who typically trigger it "have crayons lodged into their brain"
 
(I'm not saying Dragon was rude and got flagged, just general guidance)
 
@badpssockpuppet Just say it out-loud and I'm pretty sure you'll understand the emotive essence that it's supposed to indicate. It helps to growl it.
 
"Did you mean: garage baldock"
 
@GraceNote WORD THAT, WHEN GOOGLED, PRODUCES NO HITS
there, I said it.
 
6:12 PM
I'm planning to work it into as many conversations as possible now.
 
(There were contests about such words.)
 
@TimStone If any a nonce word ever ascended to popular usage, I think "nyarragabaldic" would be the most warming of victories to me.
 
That'd be nyarragabaldic indeed.
Let's not get too nyarragabaldous here though.
The nyarragabaldiness here is reaching nyarragabaldic tresholds. And that's saying something.
 
"I have voted on 600 questions" → profile says voted on 248 questions
 
Yeaaaah...and they even included the screenshot of that very stat, heh.
 
6:15 PM
@Grace I have no doubt that is mostly true. Still, moderation was a perfectly suitable tool to deal with those people in the past. I don't see why account blocking needs to come into the mix - a tool that was designed to decrease the constant flow of bad content on the mother site, not on meta.
 
That was a bit of a brow-raiser.
 
@Pekkasseriousaccount That's what the whole "crayons" part was meant to point out - these usually mark bad content, not "highly disagreeable" content.
Disagreeable ideas are spice for discussion. But plain junk (what had hence been observed at the point of the previous inquiry on the matter) is not useful to anyone on the Meta site at all. It's as noise as spam is noise.
The Team has shown diligence in handling when someone new posts a hugely disagreed idea that even leads to the ban - they actually have stepped in to release bans. So I'm pretty sure they're doing their rightest to make sure that we're only using it to filter the absolute junk material, not to censor those who may simply be controversial.
 
@RebeccaChernoff I know what kinds of questions get flagged - I've flagged over 200 posts on Super User. The process that I proposed for users to get unbanned is intended to ensure that wrongful question bans against well-established users can be lifted without Stack Exchange Team intervention.
 
@DragonLord, my statement had nothing to do with you, but rereading it, I saw that it could be interpreted as being about you, so I wanted to make sure to clarify, that's all.
 
@DragonLord Has a well-established user ever actually been caught by the question ban?
 
6:27 PM
The "100 rep from new posts" is intended to ensure that truly bad users do not disrupt moderators and 10K users with the voting process.
@GraceNote I'm not sure, but I'm assuming that a fairly high reputation score is needed for immunity against the question ban.
 
@DragonLord, do you know what happens when you assume things?
 
@DragonLord Let's see if it becomes a problem [that can't be handled on a case-by-case basis] before proposing complicated solutions to it.
 
Okay, then. I'm assuming that I'm not at risk for a question ban. If wrongful question bans do become a problem, I'll be very happy to propose the vote to unban solution on Meta.
Thanks for all of your help. I'm surprised by how many users have responded... :)
 
Ooh, @Jin?
Ah, nevermind, gotta jet. Later all ♪
 
waves
 
6:39 PM
Thanks, @RebeccaChernoff, @Shog9, @badpssockpuppet, and others. I'll just be a little more careful with what I post...
See you later. :)
 
@DragonLord Learning to be self-critical is the first step to making good Meta proposals ;-)
 
7:35 PM
@badpssockpuppet This is called a Googlenope. It was -- supposedly -- invented by Gene Weingarten. See google.com/…
 
I was working on a crazy Sharepoint issue yesterday and was surprised to find absolutely nothing Google-able about it.
More than 3 or 4 words from the error message and it was a Googlenope.
@PopularDemand Thanks for the word.
 
8:20 PM
@PopularDemand "This phrase doesn't appear on Google."
 
does nobody teach debugging 101 anymore?
seriously!!
 
@mootinator What phrase?
 
@jcolebrand Did they ever?
 
@Shog9 Beat me to it. Have a star.
 
I was taught it at some point
granted, that may have been from my father
 
8:27 PM
@jcolebrand That makes you the exception, not the rule.
 
well weren't you lot taught basic debuggery?
 
Depends. What do you consider "basic debuggery"?
 
I'm pretty sure I had exactly one afternoon of instruction on the use of a debugger. In VB. After I'd already been using debuggers for ~10 years.
It wasn't particularly memorable.
 
@PopularDemand ...is an excellent way to find articles similar to the ones returned by your search.
 
@mootinator Okay.
 
8:29 PM
@PopularDemand adding print statements all over the place
 
I was never taught debugging.
 
@balpha You, too, can have an alert(false) badge, if you just work hard enough!
 
@balpha sadly that's lesson one I'm teaching my young grasshopper
"um, this ajax request isn't getting any data back" ... ok, so reproduce it in the browser ... "uh, that's odd, the static page isn't showing me any data" ... ok, I'll let you fix it from here then.
 
@PopularDemand I created StackExchange.debug.log() to avoid that happening :)
 
Actual debuggers are basically just live non-intrusive print statements all over the place.
 
8:31 PM
depending on the language and the debugger a bit more than that :)
 
29
A: What is the proper name for doing debugging by adding 'print' statements

Shog9Yes - it's known as printf() debugging, named after the ubiquitous C function: Used to describe debugging work done by inserting commands that output more or less carefully chosen status information at key points in the program flow, observing that information and deducing what's ...

 
@balpha The path to badges, this is not.
 
8:45 PM
Fun fact:
Aug 3 '10 at 23:33, by C. Ross
works
first message in this room
 
Well... it's certainly a fact.
 
prepare for your bar's birthday party, @Chacha102 -- 1 1/2 months to go
 
Aug 3 '10 at 23:53, by Geoff Dalgas
are you better than all the other Chacha(0-101)?
Aug 3 '10 at 23:54, by Chacha102
Are you a developer?
Well, duh. He zero-indexed.
 
actually the birthday of the chat (if you count the first one-day beta as the start) is only 2 1/2 weeks away
 
8:49 PM
Do we have to get it a gift?
 
yes, a XMPP interface :p
 
That's not my department :P
 
Somebody already wrote an XMPP interface, yes?
 
Josh was working on it.
 
ergo it already exists
he used it for sometime
 
8:52 PM
it does?
 
Yeah, there is still work to be done though.
 
@balpha I'll hang the banners
 
I should definitely be more active on stackapps
 
@balpha can we request "official support" for /me where it indents the message within the body ala IRC and skype?
so that it has a distinctly different appearance
 
14
Q: /me command for chat

The OyNotFound ExceptionI love the "action" command /me found elsewhere, and think it would be fun to have in the chat. A message like: /me loves the new chat system Would show up as: Josh loves the new chat system Rather than: Josh: loves the new chat system I'm trying to think how it would work with ...

Josh coincidentally had that one covered too :P
 
8:54 PM
Yeah, but it was never implemented
hence while he's hanging about in here more nowadays
I figured I would prod @balpha
 
whatcha talkin bout? I've always been hanging out in here, since day one
Sep 13 '10 at 19:03, by balpha
and it needs /me support
(see the transcript for context, though)
 
uses the users scripts thus has /me support
 
Feel like there was some updates I wanted to make to the userscript too, hrm.
 
doesnèt think this has the same affect
Has decided he isnèt going to do anything when Windows randomly changes his keyboard.
Ètoo much workÈ
 
9:02 PM
Where is Josh these days by the way?
> ètoo much workè
that sounds french
 
@Pekkasseriousaccount Working hard and all that, heh.
 
Canadian =)
 
Or that! :)
@TimStone yeah, probably. Haven't seen him for a long time!
 
9:04 PM
Chat is already a year old? How time flys by.
 
Hahah, WTF?
 
The closing statement makes it especially weird. Learn from Adobe of all places?
 
what the?
 
@Pekkasseriousaccount Maybe they're a Flash fan or something, otherwise I have no idea.
Plus that's a silly bug report anyway, it should have been filed against the CSS team.
 
more like against the INeedAHug team
 
9:09 PM
Hey, Adobe made PostScript, which was good. Then it made PDF, which was great. Then it made PDF 1.4, which was awesome. Then it made PDF 1.7, which was useless.
 
9:47 PM
And it also bought flash, which was buggy. And made it more so.
 
10:03 PM
and there we go. I have graduated..
 
congratulations!
 
@Chacha102 woot.
 
@Chacha102 Did you mean to say... "DING!"
 
lol
Congrats, man.
 
Now, onto getting one of those hood things..
 
10:04 PM
congrats :)
 
@Chacha102 Indeed. I haven't quite gone back for mine yet ;)
 
uh oh brb
 
In other news. I finally managed to get Eve working in Wine. \o/ Let the procrastination commence. ;)
 
glares at the heavy rain
 
10:20 PM
does anybody have any good leads on an MVC3 (asp.net) book?
 
Yes, but I'm not telling you.
@jcolebrand Was that (asp.net) so I don't link to a Marvel Vs Capcom 3 strategy guide?
 
@mootinator aye
 
I don't actually see anything on Amazon I would consider buying.
SO has severely diluted the value of product specific tech books for me.
 
I know right
My boss is like "if you want a book we can get one" so I was looking, but I'm like "I'm almost where I am comfortable enough with this to start showing others how to write it so shush
he likes to interrupt me when I'm on a roll I think
one thing I don't understand is how the view knows which layout to use to render with
I suppose it uses convention to choose _Layout.cshtml and I should choose a different one in the view that I'm defining tho, I just started to look at that when he came in
 
10:38 PM
something like that
 
holy crap I'm like a programming GOD now :D
I have about three more steps to figure out this MVC3+Razor thing and I'm going to be all over this
 
_ViewStart.cshtml is where you define what your layout page is. You can call it whatever you want.
 
Kev you write MVC3 on a regular basis I take it?
 
Oh, 1 1/2 months and the Tavern will be a year old..
kewl..
 
@RebeccaChernoff nested layouts dear
 
10:42 PM
@jcolebrand I'm still in dusty old MVC2 land.
 
besides, I already kicked that one's arse, I'm on to a new task :p
 
Eh, I just glanced in, and responded. You think I actually read context to see if I was understanding the convo?
 
sometimes yes, sometimes no
 
My team didn't understand that it should really be called ASP.NET MVVMC, so there's a lot of cruft in my project as a result.
 
MVVMC.... I think that is just a little excessive in the acronym department
ASP.NET MVVMC ... there isn't a single non-acronym in there..
 
10:47 PM
.NET?
 
Active Server Pages.Not Even a Term Model View View-Model Controller?
 
Hahah
 
we should start a blog on blog overflow
the blog.chat.meta.stackoverflow.com blog!!!
Where we can talk about chatting on Chat.MetaSO
 
do you mean about chatting on chat.Meta Stack Overflow?
Ok, razor is badass
whereelse can you do passthrough rendering like this: (yes, it's probably a dumb idea, but I thrive on dumb ideas)
@section head{
    @RenderSection("head",false)
}
 
11:15 PM
=)
 
am I the only dev who has never written a DSL?
 
I don't recall having done that.
 
@RebeccaChernoff you still kicking about?
 
kind of
 
ActionLink(s:text, s:action, o:attributes) <-- is this Razor specific or MVC3?
like when I want to create said ActionLink of course
looking at httputility.com/various/razorhelperscheatsheet.html for reference to why I'm asking (NSFW COLORS)
 
11:26 PM
holy crap, my eyes!
 
I know
sorry, I meant to mention that
 
Razor is just a view engine, the syntax.
 
yes, I know razor is just a view engine
My point was that I'm trying to figure out if I go around calling "ActionLink" MVC3 then will people be all oO because I should be calling it a razor method instead
I guess that's a pass then
 
ActionLink is an HtmlHelper. HtmlHelpers are not view stuff, they're library side, they're aren't Razor.
 
Thanks, that's what I was trying to wrap my head around
Can I give you mini-rep in chat yet?
Now I know how to avoid sounding like an absolute bluthering idiot when I talk to others.
 
11:33 PM
@jcolebrand gonna take more than that...
q:
 
:p
well it's a hairs-breadth of a start, that it is
 

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