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11:41 AM
Note that it is explicitly NOT NEEDED to put any application that is just using [framework] as intended by the framework under the LGPL or EPL (this is where the “weak” part comes into play - contrast this with the GPL, which would only allow using [framework] to create an application that is itselft governed by the GPL
@TheRenamedException @TimStone ^
 
yestesdays discussion :) and yeah thats true @AidenBell
personally i like this licence
The WTFPL (Do What The Fuck You Want To Public License) is a rarely used, extremely permissive free software license. The original Version 1.0 license, released March 2000, was written by Banlu Kemiyatorn who used it for Window Maker artwork. Samuel “Sam” Hocevar, a French programmer who was the Debian project leader from 17 April 2007 to 16 April 2008, wrote version 2.0. It allows for redistribution and modification of the software under any terms—the licensee is encouraged to “do what the fuck [they] want to”. The license was approved as a GPL-compatible free software license by the Fr...
 
@Reno - still can't work out if an REST API called by the GPL .js lib would also count
 
> 0. You just DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO.
Hahaha
 
What do you mean API? Do you mean a remote api? or local libraries
 
Oh god, why do we have two QR codes talking to each other?
 
11:47 AM
lol
mine is funnier :-P
 
@ircmaxell - remote api, but I don't see a difference between remote API and a library ... just a different call encapsulation
 
no, it's different because of memory space
the remote api does not share any dependencies with the local code other than the protocol level.
At least that's the standpoint of the FSF
(or was last time I checkd)
 
The way I see it, my local calling code doesn't share anything either in Javascript ... other than the call-stack binary protocol used in the JS engine
 
but they run in the same memory space and compiler instance. So their argument is that you have access to the internals of the class structure there.
 
Just playing devil's advocate here .... but it sounds rather weak
 
11:51 AM
I disagree with it (I think personally if you're accessing a published API it shouldn't matter if it's local or remote), but that was their stance
 
Oh well, I will see if I can ask Stallman tomorrow.
 
lol, good luck with that
 
There doesn't seem to be a clear line in the sand technically on what is use via calling and use via linking-type-stuff
 
there isn't.
Laws are made by lawyers, not technology experts. And enforced by judges, not technology experts
so unless there's trial experience, it's a crap-shoot.
 
Well IMVHO, if I use a GPLv3 Javascript library, I can see distributing the using .js files GPL ... but if it starts to encroach on the web-api it calls ... then that seems lame, but I can't see how they can make a decision one way or another as they are both uses, just a fatter protocol.
 
11:55 AM
not arguing, just telling you my experience with the fsf
 
@ircmaxell RMS-his-highness is giving a lecture I am attending.
@ircmaxell - Didn't think you were arguing ;)
 
sounds like fun
 
Just been reading stuff all night trying to see where the line is. What next? A GPL javascript library in an IE browser logically causing the BSD system serving the JSON to be GPL too
lol (that's not the way it is I know)
 
LOL
 
I think the interpretation if convey is the important bit. The API's logic isn't distributed to the end user.
whereas calling javascript is
hence the line in the sand
 
12:04 PM
@Reno lol my new favorite license :D
 
12:28 PM
Adding arbitrary users is now active on the elections monitor page. I'll continue to squash bugs, but you can go try it out now
 
Oh, somewhere above 10K, we have the abliity to protect questions. Nice.
 
@GeorgeStocker 15k
 
Yea, it just showed up for me today and I'm at 16K, so I didn't know if it was a 15K privilege or a 10K privilege just added.
 
I just checked it. :-)
Not until after I said that though.
 
12:34 PM
@YiJiang Wow, you went over the top there, I was just expecting to enter a userid!
 
it was just added...
 
@YiJiang But what order am I supposed to do things in? options>site or site>options?
 
@Benjol Choose a site first, then choose add user
 
hm, I guess I have to wait for it to stop reticulating splines first...
Oh no, it was the Add users link that I hadn't clicked
hm, I'm 8th if you order by meta rep :)
 
@Benjol Wow, that's... hrm...
Well, it's kind of sad on the part of the candidates
For balance, you should add Jon Skeet in there
 
12:39 PM
I was going to look at how bad my meta rep/so rep ratio was, but jjnguy and @George beat me by a mile :)
 
@Benjol Is that so? :P
 
@YiJiang, you forget to empty the user list before adding the new ones when I change the search text.
 
@Benjol Is it, huh... it should work
Well, let me look through the code again
 
HEY! I have more question than Jon Skeet! Woohooo. Eh looks around, yeah.. well.. as I was saying...
Interestingly @ChristJesterYoung wins on Average Rep/Post, closely followed by @JJnguy
 
1:01 PM
@All, should I see 'flagging' in my activity tab?
 
@Benjol I don't see it, where?
 
@YiJiang, no, it's just that I just got Citizen's Patrol on cooking, and I'm pretty certain I've never flagged anything there, but I wanted to check before posting a bug on meta
As far as I can see, I've got no way of checking
@Marc, could you do me a favour? Is there any way you can see if I've ever flagged anything on cooking.se?
 
I don't have a button for that - I'd need to go to the DB. Which I don't like doing.
 
@Marc, ok.
I'll just post a bug on meta. work for someone :)
 
is this re citizen's patrol?
 
1:04 PM
yessir
 
I guess it deliberately doesn't say what you flagged... hmph
 
@MarcGravell I went looking in my activity tab, but there's nothing for flagging there
 
1:26 PM
I'm not sure flagging is ever shown... even on the moderator pages we only see your name if it is a moderator-message. For spam/offensive/etc we just see the count.
 
2
Q: Citizen's Patrol, are you *sure* it's fixed right?

BenjolI got a load of Citizen's Patrol badges this morning, which is nice. I know the rules have changed, but I got it on Cooking.SE, and I'm pretty certain that I've never flagged anything there. Sorry if I'm wrong (I don't think I've got any way of checking)

 
1:47 PM
Finally, some snow!
 
Kev
1:58 PM
So before I click the new "protect" link out of idle curiosity....does it bring up a confirmation dialogue I can cancel out of? :)
 
@Kev, dunno, but you can undo your own protects
73
A: Recent feature changes to Stack Exchange

devinb Jan/Feb/Mar 2011 2011-02-09: Migration now does tag checks. During migration, tags will be checked (and replaced if found) for tag synonyms on the destination site. Tags that do not exist on the destination site will be stripped from the question. If the previous steps leave a question wit...

 
Morning everyone!
 
I wonder if anyone had any luck adding Facebook chat to Pidgin
 
@YiJiang using a Jabber-type account?
 
@LoïcWolff Tried following the instructions Facebook gave, but it didn't work
 
Kev
2:02 PM
@Benjol - thanks - sadly doesn't say...but I can confirm that it doesn't confirm. just actions it right away
 
Authentication error, which could be anything really
 
did you set up the custom url ? something like facebook.com/yi.jiang?
 
Kev
what's the url to get the activity history of a question that shows ALL activity, not just edits
 
@Kev /posts/{id}/timeline
@LoïcWolff I did, I have a username
 
Kev
@YiJiang - ta...thats the one
 
2:06 PM
then username@chat.facebook.com connecting to chat.facebook.com server should do it. maybe try w/ and w/o SSL
 
Without, the instructions specifically stated that Facebook chat currently does not support SSL
"Not authorized" is the error, hrm...
 
@YiJiang Do you have SSL (https) enabled for the account?
 
Now If you'll excuse me, I apparently have some serious reexamination of my life to do.
 
@PopularDemand Heh, who doesn't? :)
 
2:10 PM
@GeorgeMarian Disabled, as per their instruction "• Uncheck "Use SSL""
 
BTW, if you have SSL enabled for the account, but some app or w/e requires that it be disabled and you comply, it ends up being disabled for the entire account. Apparently, the notification does not inform you that you're turning it off the entire account.
 
Oh, you mean SSL on the Facebook account side. Hrm... no, though I might want to turn it on
But first, I need to get the chat thingy working on Pidgin
 
Are you trying to get it working with SSL?
 
Disabled, on the Pidgin settings. Also not enabled for my Facebook account
 
is not highlighted properly in chat.
 
2:14 PM
Ah, ok. FWIW, facebook chat just plain sucks. :)
 
Right, well I'd rather not miss out on anything. Hrmp...
 
status-completed
No repro here, @Nyuszika7H.
 
sorry I used wrong syntax
 
@YiJiang Yah, I didn't figure that would be an acceptable "answer." :)
 
status-norepro
 
2:16 PM
One of the reason why I'm trying to get Pidgin to work with it is because the web interface sucks
 
Fair enough.
Alright, despite my budgetary constraints, the insomnia is calling for the soothing goodness of a white mocha. bbiab
 
Google found this, code.google.com/p/pidgin-facebookchat looks promising - High activity and actively maintained
Still don't understand why Facebook's instructions won't work
Hmmm... it worked for a second, then the account disconnected with a "Server closed the connection." error
Ah, it's finally working, hrump
 
2:52 PM
I said that a little too early, the chat is connected about 1% of the time
 
Graphics designer? Build this with me. http://bldw.me/Tzm1 #graphics #designer #startup
 
Has this been posted in here? as though we need the reminder :\
 
Sigh... neither Facebook's instructions nor the plugin works.
 
3:08 PM
Yahoo's market share as search engine? Sources?
 
SO's rate limiting is exactly contrary to my thought processes, and I'm going to stab it
 
@Trufa 0
 
@Trufa they don't have a search engine, so at most they're a portal. What is it you want to know?
@MichaelMrozek please do
 
@MichaelMrozek At first I thought you said SO was rate-limiting your thought processes.
 
@PopularDemand That's their goal, but I refuse to yield
 
3:14 PM
@MichaelMrozek I've always thought of writing a GM script that catches your comment upvotes and delays them by just enough seconds to bypass the limit automatically
 
@DanGrossman heh?
@drachenstern ok they are powered by bing
 
@YiJiang that would only work if a) it could talk cross tab, and b) you didn't close the tab till it was done. Maybe it could autoclose the tab as it finished upvoting, if you added an extra element to the page (close after voting [X])
 
that is what you are trying to say?
 
@Trufa yes
 
@drachenstern It should only limit by at most 5 seconds, shouldn't be too hard to not get caught there
 
3:16 PM
@drachenstern I would like to know how many people actually use it
 
@Trufa it's the 4th most popular site according to Alexa
So where I rarely open Yahoo, my wife looks at it all the time.
 
Talking cross-tab is no problem, though unnecessary here since it's unlikely you're going to be jumping between tabs upvoting comments
 
@drachenstern yep, but as a search engine is what I'm not findinf
@DanGrossman yep thats more like it
 
@YiJiang not true. I upvote four comments on this new question. I goto the next tab and upvote five other comments. I can read them faster than 5 seconds per, so by the time I get through upvoting the fifth it'll just be started on upvoting the ones on this page, so when I goto the next tab, it's still 5 behind. (Scenario)
 
3:25 PM
This post is a ball of failure. Four answers, three of which don't answer the question, and a fourth that does but is deleted, and a question edit that changes the source code
2
 
Any dojo'ers in the room?
 
What's the deleted fourth say?
 
@MichaelMrozek - what a load of crap
 
@drachenstern "This function works just fine. Your bug is elsewhere."
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it "works just fine", but the second part is right
 
@TheRenamedException - Beep: I've had better luck with Dojo/Dijit than qooxdoo so far
 
3:31 PM
@MichaelMrozek I actually updated the question once more, as part of the original code was stripped during "reformatting" by a helpful editor. If the original author has a set of parens, we should maintain those parens as they typed it.
 
@drachenstern I don't think the people in this room are the ones you need to be telling that to. (Then again, the guy who modified the source has been in here before....)
 
@PopularDemand I realize that, so I put it explicitly in the edit ;)
 
@drachenstern Oh, I didn't even notice. I glanced at the edits to make sure somebody hadn't accidentally removed the second )
 
@drachenstern Yep, I see it now.
 
@MichaelMrozek jup, I only noticed cos I expanded the original based on your comments.
@PopularDemand he fixed his code, revisit your downvote?
 
3:35 PM
@drachenstern I'm pretty sure none of the answers you mass-posted that comment on actually depended on that change
 
I'm sure, and I'm going to remove them in a few minutes, wanted to notify each author
 
0
Q: how to return a string in my c code .

zjm1126i am a c beginner , and this is my c code : #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> main() { printf("Hello world !\n"); return 'sss' } that will show a error , so how to return a string in c code , thanks

 
didn't think I could @them all in one string
 
count as dupe?
 
@AidenBell I think so
 
3:36 PM
@drachenstern I fixed it 30 seconds after the edit; clear your cache?
 
I didn't think return("string"); was valid C <-- is it afterall?
@PopularDemand no, I posted that in the intervening 30 seconds
 
status-its-all-good
 
@PopularDemand jup jup
 
6
Q: Parenthesis surrounding return values

TooonyQuite often in ANSI C code I can see parenthesis sorrounding a single return value. Like this:- int foo(int x) { if (x) return (-1); else return (0); } Why use () around the return value in those cases? Any ideas? I can see no reason for that.

@AidenBell that does suck
 
3:42 PM
@drachenstern - I figure I only care about those extra parens if:
A) The compiler cares (which it doesn't)
B) Other coders care (which they don't)
C) If a coding convention/style doc says do/don't for a project
 
@PopularDemand - I was just noting the SO careers lack of jobs ;)
 
@AidenBell I just have a fundamental problem removing or "cleaning up" people's code when the new code doesn't match the old code. Same as adding/removing brackets, altering javascript to insert a \n where one didn't exist, etc.
 
See (C)
 
I get reformatting to put it in a codeblock, but ...
@AidenBell yes yes, I know...
 
3:45 PM
TBH code reformatting is quite low down my list of criticals anyway ... shipping and fixing are first and I will never run out of those tasks
 
@AidenBell you're shipping code via SO? :p
 
@drachenstern - oh right lol. Thought you went around checking-in commits of reformatting hehe
misread
 
@AidenBell lol, no, only if I actually reparse the file for adding a new feature.
 
Who needs version control when I can make a functionally infinite number of posts to SO?
 
SO as GitHub replacement .... :S
Question: Commit to project [name] (question ID as commit id)
also, i vote that the suggested-edits feature is crap
 
3:48 PM
(Actually, there have been users who have done this; ask a question with code, get an answer, ask a new question about the next bug they see with code that's basically their old question merged with the correct answer....)
 
SocialDebugging
 
Apropos of nothing: Thanks for hg init, @JoelSpolsky!
 
@PopularDemand yes, and it's been brought up on SO just recently
 
@AidenBell thanks for the update!
 
@AidenBell whyso?
 
3:49 PM
@TheRenamedException - lol instead of joining the cool kids and tweeting, I just beep you.
@drachenstern - multi-tier moderation just feels wrong. Give people privs or dont.
 
Tweeting is for twits :-)
 
@TheRenamedException Leo Laporte does indeed tweet
@AidenBell I grok that, but I still disagree.
 
I miss the old Screen Savers
 
Just watch twit :p
zomg, have you seen his new studios?
he's getting ready to have a studio like that old one
I think they could do awesome things with the basement space with vertical lighting on the columns to open up the ceiling
 
3:57 PM
Ha, "closing a duplicate is so far within the mandate that the edge of the mandate cannot be seen – Marc Gravell"
 
One of my clients is reporting really odd issues again :-(
and I don't understand what the &#%* they're saying... LOL
 
doh
 
they even sent screencaps!
 
Poll: Edit suggestions feature - Good or Bad
 
AH HA
I believe some of my client's employees have changed their browser zoom level
This is going to mess me up really badly
 
4:04 PM
Hello again
 
Wil
To everyone here... a few of us from SU are trying to start a regular game night... most likely at the weekend, if you are interested, looking for suggestions here - spreadsheets.google.com/… and the official chat room is
 
@jjnguy Good
Needs some fine-tuning (which may take some time, and a number of changes until it is got right), but good
 
@Pekka Totally agree
I think they are limiting the approval process too much.
 
@jjnguy yeah, but that will change in time, I'm sure.
 
4:08 PM
@jjnguy I used to, until they turned on single-user approves for that one fateful day
 
@Pekka Oh, I'm sure.
 
I alternated between rolling back horrible edits and cursing at my computer
 
@MichaelMrozek You think it should be more than 1 user approving?
 
@Wil Will check this out when I get home.
 
@jjnguy Yes. I don't like how it blocks 2k users from editing, and hopefully someone comes up with a clever solution, but 1 user approves were a disaster
 
4:09 PM
It will take some time until some standard has emerged what gets approved, and what doesn't
 
I think Jeff turned them on mostly so he could deservedly say "I told you so"
 
@Wil Are those the only games proposed?
 
Plus I'm 1000% sure there will be a feature to communicate with editors at some point. It's too anonymous right now
 
@Pekka Hm. One thousand percent of what?
 
It is very hard to contact an editor
 
4:11 PM
@PopularDemand of my overall excellence
That is a pretty strong bet
By the way, it's very interesting to see what the finns are up to these days. I'm not kidding
 
Wil
@jjnguy For the first game, we want something free that everyone can join in on.... Please feel free to suggest others. If this is popular, it will be a regular thing, and possibly branch out to other (pay) games.
 
@Wil, k
 
4:27 PM
How does one go about upvoting an article? mydigitallife.info/2010/01/23/… :p
superuser.com/questions/141625/… <-- oh if only you weren't CW
Also, dupefinding, fun
yay, I did a good deed for today, marking dupe to be closed ;)
 
I did as well, I typed a url in from a screen-shot to debug a problem because the OP didn't feel it was necessary to post a link or code...
 
> Sorry! We can't display this content while you're viewing Facebook over a secure connection (https). To use this app, you'll need to switch to a regular connection (http).
Guess what I'm not doing
 
@drachenstern Continuing to use HTTPS, because that content is just so amazing?
 
@PopularDemand I was hoping you had the first part reversed from what you did, so I could have a smartass response, but instead, you actually predicted what I was doing accurately, so that didn't allow me to give the smartass response ... :p
 
@drachenstern Victory is mine!
 
4:36 PM
@PopularDemand indeed it is
indeed it is
what the hell is facebook flake?
Is that pageflakes? hmmm
Well, down to three "approved apps" on facebook. Guess that's a bonus
 
Perhaps a support group for dandruff sufferers?
 
hell I forgot to do what I opened chrome for in the first place :\ ... off to google
omg, I just fell in love with ReSharper all over again.
 
5:07 PM
Quick query for the chatroom: Do beta sites get code formatting?
0
A: Technique for sending lots of data into stored proc

drachensternI finally got a chance to do some TableValuedParameters and they work great, so I'm going to paste a whole lotta code that shows how I'm using them, with a sample from some of my current code: (note: we use ADO.NET) Also note: I'm writing some code for a service, and I've got lots of predefined ...

I have both C# and TSQL and neither one is formatted with color. What do I need to do to make either part of it colored?
 
Wheee, Visual Website Optimizer and Conversion Voodoo are doing a live webinar right now, and they chose one of my sites to do a free critique (including eye tracking study) on as part of the webinar
 
@DanGrossman so is this a good thing for you or a potentially negative thing for you? Looks like you've got solid cross page eye coverage, good to hear that for you
 
I think it's a horrible landing page, thats probably why they chose it
I should work on it, but I have a million excuses to let me procrastinate instead
 
meta.dba.stackexchange.com/questions/167/… <-- question: What's the official policy on copy-pasting questions cross site for beta purposes (pre regular migration targets) [ping @RebeccaChernoff]
I feel like Jeff sidestepped my question, that annoyed me
 
Didn't Jeff answer that? I think that's the question I'm thinking of...
haha
 
5:18 PM
He migrated that one in particular, which was fine, but I was thinking more in general
I just don't want to be afeared if I copy-paste something that I'll get everybody's panties in a twist, and I know some people here (eyes @PopularDemand and @TimStone) have lightning memories on meta Qs and know where to look for the appropos prior question
 
http://notarealquestion.appspot.com/ now with English, Webmasters, Apple, and Unix #stackexchange
2
 
@balpha haha, nice
 
nice
 
@drachenstern I can't speak for Tim, but I don't think I have a lightning memory; just lightning too much time on my hands. Now, @GraceNote....
 
@drachenstern, opening a meta.dba post for a question you want migrated to dba doesn't seem so useful. Hey I know you can't do anything about this, but I'm going to post it here for the lulz (;
 
5:23 PM
@PopularDemand You mean the @GraceNote who's never in chat? :p ... true, grace would probably know immediately ;) ... but you're always fast on the draw with remembering key ones
 
Hi there! :)
 
@drachenstern I'm somewhat tempted to argue, but instead I'll just graciously accept the compliment -- I think that's a compliment -- and return to this Swing layout madness.
 
@RebeccaChernoff a) I feel like you're implying that I did it for the lulz, which I didn't, but I doubt you're intentionally implying that, so I'm meh on that. b) I did flag it on SO as well as ask the direct question on meta.dba.SE. c) I know there haven't been many sites with cross-postability like this so far (codegolf.SE, the trilogy, and P.SE, but that's about the extent of them) so I'm curious what's the netiquette involved
@PopularDemand it's a compliment. Enjoy your Swing ;) [there's a reason I don't do Java]
 
No, I wasn't implying you did, I'm just saying it doesn't seem particularly useful as the people on meta.dba may not be people of power elsewhere.
 
So aside from flagging and commenting to the OP (who may ignore me), is there anything else I can do there?
@RebeccaChernoff yeah but Jeff has ESP or something, cos the man responds to like every meta post I've ever come across. I bet he has a special meta.SE2.0 page that just cross lists all the new posts huh?
 
5:27 PM
We float around the sites ya know. (:
 
@RebeccaChernoff besides, I figured posting to that meta was better than to meta.SO, as it was targeted at the specific site, not at the grandcentral userbase ... altho I do acknowledge "may not be people of power elsewhere"
 
that game is addicting
 
Albeit, in hindsight I guess my question is for the grandcentral userbase of MSO, isn't it?
 
> Great job, you got it all right in 234.31 seconds. You can now click on the question titles to learn more about the topics, or have another go to see if you can be even faster!
 
Hm? Jeff's got it right (shocking, right? q:) Migration to a beta site is for exceptional cases.
 
5:30 PM
@RebeccaChernoff yes, but with three(?) thousand or so new questions a day, one or two per week that might be migratable are exceptional enough, no? What's the best route for nominating those for migration, ask a MSO Q, flag it or just hope that it gets noticed if I don't say anything?
 
Search around meta. I feel like this has been covered.
 
@RebeccaChernoff hence I came here to ask the groupbrain that's better at finding the topics than I :p ... I'll ping Tim later when he's awake/back on chat ;)
Hmm, I may go find Grace too
 
5:43 PM
GAH, the second time in 24 hours I'm confused on how to vote :(
7
Q: Should Suggested Edits change the technical content of a post?

Robert HarveyI have noticed a significant number of suggested edits that attempt to fix code, or change the original meaning of someone else's post. Is this really a good idea? I've been on StackOverflow awhile, and among the editors who have sufficient reputation to edit without approval, I've never se...

does an upvote mean I agree that they should not change the technical content of the post, or does an upvote mean I think they should change the technical content of a post?
 
@drachenstern ...probably.
 
@PopularDemand exactly! At least I know I'm not alone ;)
 
@drachenstern FWIW, when I upvoted, I meant "this is a good thing to bring up for discussion."
 
omg, when did that happen? comments username onhover is their rep on site. I love it.
 
@drachenstern Are you sure that's new? I think it's been around for months.
 
5:48 PM
@PopularDemand ergo "when did that happen" cos I hadn't seen it
@PopularDemand I'm so confused :S
 
@drachenstern December 17, 2009
 
A winner is @balpha!
 
Dammit @balpha. Be slower.
 
@balpha oh holy sweet $DEITY ... what other easter eggs are there like that that are quite nice usability tweaks that I have no clue on? #ReadMyMind #WheresMyBrainSuckInterface
 
Gnome3's shell sucks
 
5:54 PM
(I forgot where it was originally and am looking for the right name/link)
 
@PopularDemand I usually remember that something had been brought up, and occasionally what to look for to find it...but generally I just search, heh.
 
@AidenBell Lies. Gnome Shell rocks.
 
@balpha - im going to install gnome 3 and stick to the usual suspects ... never mind I find it isn't great for usability ... but Javascript?! What happened to Gnome+Python? Before you know it web-babies will be hacking piss poorly coded extensions and we will have questions like "Why doesn't Gnome shell support JQuery" on SO
</rant>
 
@TimStone you still manage to find stuff way faster/better than I do :p
 
Why does it matter what language it is? For all I care it could be written in cobol and F# :)
 

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