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3:02 PM
Good Morning
 
Ha!
Hi @Feeds!
 
Did somebody actually star that again, or is it @Chacha102 just abusing that pin glitch. If it's the latter that's starting to get ridiculous
 
@MichaelMrozek Star what?
 
@MichaelMrozek I didn't do anything...
 
3 mins ago, by Chacha102
Good Morning
 
3:05 PM
I logged in, said Good Morning, and ever since have been looking at my email
 
I was about to offer a one-star bounty for removing the existing pin, when I noticed that @Chacha just did it. So I starred him for it anyways.
 
...
You mean the Jeff Atwood post?
 
@Chacha102 Yep.
 
So yeah, Popular Starred in, I unpinned Jeff's post, yeah... I didn't do anything wrong..
Burn Popular, not me
 
@PopularDemand Turns out this already exists, and isn't particularly popular.
 
3:07 PM
Ok, just making sure; you h4x0ring that pin thing isn't exactly unprecedented :)
 
@MichaelMrozek It isn't haxoring... Jeff called it a "privilege of the room owner"
 
@MichaelMrozek now that Chacha has other posts, I starred a less ridiculous one.
 
I wanted it to be fixed honestly..
 
@Chacha102 Adding a star to your own post through pinning and unpinning? He was probably joking
I know Jeff has a habit of [status-bydesign]-ing things that clearly aren't, but that one is just silly
 
@MichaelMrozek He seemed pretty serious about it.
 
3:09 PM
I talked to balpha, and thats what he said Jeff said, so I don't think its going away..
 
That's...wow
 
I guess it just doesn't affect a wide enough audience..
 
This is coming back to the discussion we had like a week ago about the difference between [status-deferred] and [status-bydesign]
If it's deferred that makes sense. If it's by design I call lies, balpha and marc did not sit there thinking "we should let room owners star their own posts, but only through this circuitous method"
 
I wouldn't put that past Marc. He's English, crafty folk they are.
 
Oddly enough, I can't find the source.
 
3:15 PM
@MichaelMrozek no, actually we said " this would let room owners star their own posts", and Jeff's response was more or less "that's fine".
 
not applicable -- we had the discussion before the implemetation
and actually, I don't really see a problem with it
the room owner can put all their posts to the top of the starred list
by pinning it
 
@balpha I guess that is technically by design then
 
yes, it's literally by design, as in it was designed to be that way -- I'm not 100% sure if I like it or not, but it was discussed and decide before implementing it
 
Which just goes to show, George had it right: a little more scotch never hurt anyone.
 
3:21 PM
so this is not one of @Shog9's
 
@balpha It's nothing to do with the post being on the top of the list; stars should mean "somebody besides the author liked this", not "somebody besides the author liked this unless the author is the room owner and used a really weird by-design side effect of pinning to star it themselves"
 
> That is to say, it is intentional now that Team SO knows about it.
 
is starring/pinning an issue in any other room on any of the chats other than in here?
 
@MichaelMrozek I'm not saying I disagree -- I'm just saying I don't really consider it a problem
 
If you pretend that self-accepts go to the top of the answer list on SO, it's equivalent to calling pinning accepting and starring upvoting, and saying "it's ok that people can upvote their own answers, since accepting pushes it to the top anyway"
 
3:22 PM
@balpha speaking of by-design... Still need multi-line formatted quotes with lead-in text
 
@Shog9 yeah, and bbCode support
 
@balpha skip that, go straight for full embedded HTML5 support. With cross-site-scripting!
 
Inline unicornify too ploz
 
Hey, can we replace question oneboxes with iframes? I hate having to leave chat to, y'know, use the sites.
 
@MichaelMrozek well, pinning is not accepting and starring is not upvoting, so your argument isn't quite right there... :)
 
3:24 PM
Also, the whole thing should be Flash. To keep people from stealing my precious words, y'know?
 
Don't forget to disable screenshot software on the computers of all users except Shog.
 
@MichaelMrozek Why don't you open a Meta post on this?
 
@balpha Well, I remain astounded that this was apparently intentional, but you're right that it's not a big deal
 
Silverlight, even!
 
@balpha Because I suspect you're trying to trick me into getting a question closed as [status-bydesign] immediately
 
3:26 PM
that's unfair
 
The way I see it, starring is like a hearty slap on the back. A visceral "Well said!" from someone nearby. That leaves a mark.
2
 
pinning or starring?
 
Well, the self-starring was useful during the early days right? ;)
 
ah, right starring
 
@balpha I'm joking, but if it is by design and not a big deal then a meta post about it doesn't seem useful
 
3:27 PM
Pinning is for announcements...
 
I feel so happy, I've started a somewhat useful conversation about the morals behind SO Chat
 
@balpha I'm really not that concerned with the feature itself, the argument was mostly about if it was left that way intentionally, which I was apparently wrong about
 
@Shog9 Sounds suspiciously like you're describing comment upvotes.
 
either way, I'm getting myself some food now :)
 
And honestly, I've never been 100% clear on the difference.
 
3:29 PM
Between starring and pinning?
 
oh, btw -- did I mention I got a new chair today?
 
I would take a picture of my chair, but I'm ashamed
 
@balpha Fancy.
@MichaelMrozek Between starring and comment upvotes.
 
my chair is a desk...
a student desk...
 
It has more knobs and levers than the average star trek ship
 
3:29 PM
@Chacha102 Even though you're on the Internet?
 
None really, @pop
 
@PopularDemand Yes
I have Wifi....
@balpha Can we get @all support?
 
eww
 
@balpha TOS? 'cause that's not saying much if you're referring to, say, the VOY era.
 
no
please no
 
3:31 PM
@Chacha102 we had that -- you guys wanted it gone :)
6
Q: It is currently possible to notify all users in a room

radpMy self-censoring attempt ended up highlighting for the whole room. Apparently, most combinations of three or more non-letters after the @ symbol will work, including the original @#$£ or less imaginative @###, @$$$, @£££. @@@@ also works.

 
/announce I have a bullhorn!
 
@@@@ It doesn't work..
 
Where is the antistar when you need it?
 
...flag? (;
 
@Chacha102 Kids these days and their "take-anywhere" Internets....
 
3:37 PM
speaking of which... How do I get a post menu in the mobile version?
 
@Shog9 Kids these days and their "take-anywhere" Internets....
 
SPEAKING OF WHICH...
 
@Shog9 KIDS THESE DAYS
 
You two should pair off for ten minutes and see who snaps first
 
/me taps frustratedly on pops' repetitious posts
 
3:46 PM
How many messages can be held in the StackExchangeâ„¢ MultiCollider SuperDropdownâ„¢ inbox?
 
over 9000
 
I keep seeing the "new" number magically reset to 1 even though I never open it.
 
which site are you looking at?
ignore it on meta
 
@rchern Please be advised that a noticeable urge for blood is not part of any test protocol but is an unintended side effect of unread messages in the StackExchageâ„¢ MultiCollider SuperDropdownâ„¢, which may, in semi-rare cases, superdropdownâ„¢ dental fillings, crowns, tooth enamel, and teeth.
 
@rchern Oh, in that case, it works, at least partially. What's wrong with Meta?
 
3:50 PM
2
Q: Issues with revision 2010.10.7.4?

rchernHere on Meta, with revision 2010.10.7.4, I am seeing a couple of issues. (Perhaps these are related to the data center migration or a prior revision from today - WA and SO have revision 2010.10.6.1) Account association broken (works on SO and WA) Inbox link in the StackExchangeâ„¢ MultiCollide...

more specifically
2
A: Issues with revision 2010.10.7.4?

Kevin MontroseThis is (temporarily!) by-design. We've basically split the data center in two, with Meta serving as our canary for the eventual migration of all remaining sites. Accordingly, alot of the "cross site" features have been turned off (like Inbox) or don't really work (like associations).

 
Okay, sites are being migrated to NYC; where are they being migrated from? California somewhere?
 
The old data center was in Oregon.
 
@mmyers Thanks.
 
4:08 PM
@mmyers Wow. I didn't think it'd just be... out there.
 
Out there?
As in public knowledge, or as in Oregon?
 
Public knowledge.
 
The volunteer SO minutemen guard the servers around the clock
 
Tim
Heh, I went to an Amazon Web Services seminar the other week where their CISO made a big point of the fact that even most Amazon employees don't know the exact locations of their data centers (including the people that remotely administer them).
 
I didn't mean "what a secret, I can't believe they let this out!" It was more "I'm surprised they bothered to waste the digital ink it took to say 'Oregon,' much less 'Corvallis.'"
 
4:36 PM
@MichaelMrozek Okay, my previous statement aside, I'm now wondering what the volunteer SO minutemen are like.
 
That's what they look like
 
@AidenBell Thank you
for confirming my belief that it's better to not ask questions.
 
heh
@PopularDemand Here is the accompanying Joel
(Duran duran from Barbarella)
 
4:56 PM
@AidenBell I'm practicing code reuse. Mentally change this to be addressing you and to be asking to not have any more files.
Oct 1 at 20:25, by Popular Demand
Dear people responsible for SVN: I don't know what I did to you, but I apologize. I promise I didn't mean to yell at your kid, run over your cat, introduce bedbugs into your home, burn down your favorite restaurant and/or cause your bank to go out of business. In fact, I didn't even know that I did any of those things. Again, I am sorry. Now may I please have my files?
 
Wow.
 
Question about browser plugin/add-on/extension: belongs on SU?
 
@all don't answer the question - it is a trap
 
If you're not developing said extension, I'd say yes.
 
Yeesh, why am I asking this here when there's SU chat?
 
5:03 PM
Because nobody uses SU chat? I don't know.
 
Case of the .... Thursdays?
 
Turns out there are people on SU chat at the moment.
in Root Access on Super User Chat, 53 secs ago, by Ivo Flipse
I would ask them on web apps
 
Yeah, I guess that was unfair. There are 5 active users there counting you, compared with 12 here.
Why would an extension be on web apps?
 
webapps wtf
 
ping @rchern
 
5:06 PM
Hey, why not ask Ubuntu questions in Linux while we are at it
sarcasm
 
Never mind, rchern said she had a meeting at noon.
 
in Root Access on Super User Chat, 2 mins ago, by Ivo Flipse
but it depends on the problem
@mmyers I did expect to be walking into a ghost town, actually.
 
I would definitely expect browser extension questions to be on SU
 
Have I mentioned I still think per-site chats are a bad idea? :)
chat needs a certain critical mass in channel before people will bother with it
 
I don't know about bad, exactly. I think I used the word "unnecessary" a little while ago
 
5:20 PM
@radp You would prefer chat.stackexchange.com?
 
Call it whatever you want, but a centralized chat is probably better until a site gets enough rooms on that chat to warrant splitting off (if ever)
 
to be honest, even when MSO was alone ruling the skies, there only were two channels with activity
general and gaming general
and while gaming general gets in the way of my point (:P)
and while multiple channels are definitely a plus
 
I never really expected this to be super popular; the main reason I like chat is the ability to spin off discussion about a question into a live room
 
people at the end of the day just get on one channel and idle there
 
@AidenBell Your sarcasm aside, that's actually an interesting blog post miniseries.
 
Agreed.
@PopularDemand Havn't seen/heard a podcast in a while
 
@AidenBell They've canceled those.
 
boooo
 
Actually, considering that anyone can make a new chatroom called anything, I am in favor of on central chat site.
 
5:29 PM
@Moshe - Central chat sounds good, providing it doesn't go the way of SO and degrade
 
@radp - how often does mobile chat poll for new messages?
 
I like quiet. On the whole, you know people on here actually care to some degree
 
How has SO degraded?
 
13
Q: Any thought of bringing back the podcast?

Will MAny thought of bringing back the podcast? I miss the once a week dose of Jeff & Joel. Update: still missing it

 
@Moshe - I find too much noise to find a question to sink teeth into. IMVHO
@PopularDemand +1 on that. My podcast playlist is running dry.
 
5:31 PM
Oh, right, now I recall why the gaming room was very active
question feeds
close bad questions in a matter of minutes
 
Perhaps there should be a "I googled this already" checkbox for a while. Just to stop laziness. (Which I am guilty of as well...)
 
@Moshe - Not a bad idea, or even the top 10 Google results in addition to the "already on SO" when asking ... mind you, they will probably be the same ;)
 
@mmyers, pong.
 
@Moshe -1. An easily Googlable question is still a great SO question if SO doesn't already have the answer.
Otherwise how will we become the #1 result on Google for that question?
 
true
 
5:34 PM
@Aiden - no. Your idea is better. But a check box is more noticeable.
@popularDemand no. If the question exists already....
 
@rchern @mmyers was pinging you about this, regarding questions on browser extensions/add-ons:
in Root Access on Super User Chat, 30 mins ago, by Ivo Flipse
I would ask them on web apps
 
@Moshe , @PopularDemand raises a good point though. Even when Google yields an answer, SOers can generally turn that into a better one
and easy-google == easy points
 
Fair enough, but what if google shows SO as the top answers...
 
i don't get it
people don't need my permission to ask a question on WA...
 
@Moshe I did specifically say "if SO doesn't already have the answer."
 
5:36 PM
@Moshe that is the same as the current situation "already on SO"
 
This is one of the permanently featured FAQ entries:
46
Q: How to deal with Google questions

I've seen a lot of questions that can be answered with a simple Google search. For questions like this, an answer can be found by just cut'n'pasting the question directly into the Google search field and scanning the first few hits. Every new user wants to try out the feature and ask a question...

@rchern Really? Oh, great, I can post all my questions now!
 
@rchern Right, but I thought it was inappropriate for WA and wanted an opinion from someone who actually uses WA. Which I don't.
 
(The issue was whether such questions are on-topic at SU or WA or wherever.)
 
questions about browsers/extensions are fine if the focus is on a web app rather than a feature of the software
 
@PopularDemand logic says SU unless it is
"How to debug X problem with plugin Y" -- SO
"Which is the best GMail browser plugin" -- WA
 
5:39 PM
(i'm pretty sure i put a similar statement in our faq)
 
Eh. I'd go with ""Which is the best GMail browser plugin" -- closed"
But yeah, I was thinking SU too. For some reason there was just a nagging doubt in one of my brain's dusty back corners, and what do you know, other people were not clear either.
 
Unless of course, you want to shut down SU and spend time dividing all existing questions to SO, WA, Apple.se, Android.se etc.
 
head meets desk
 
Where would we dump all our unwanted questions then?
 
@Moshe there are lots of SU questions that wouldn't belong on any other SE site, including betas.
@mmyers MSO.
 
5:41 PM
@mmyers - landfill.se
 
There should be a "Which SE site does this belong on" SE site
 
@Moshe But they're tightening up programmers.se...
 
@AidenBell MSO.
 
bah
Wired winds me up:
"Growing up outside New York City, Tsunoda, now 36, recalls enjoying freeform play experiences..."
freeform play experiences
 
@AidenBell the misplaced modifier bothers me more.
 
5:45 PM
We called that "Climbing trees and stuff"
@PopularDemand you sound irritable.
 
@AidenBell Er? It's not intentional....
 
is afraid of @PopularDemand but too scared to say anything
 
@PopularDemand fair enough, lost context in text.
@MichaelMrozek - lol
 
@MichaelMrozek Haven't you ever seen the Stonecutters episode of The Simpsons? You outrank me by over 100 spots! Though I am climbing the ladder....
 
@PopularDemand - It might be more like the skull-and-bones episode of Family Guy ...
 
5:53 PM
Besides -- and more importantly -- I'm targeting @Grace Note, not you. I mean, have you seen this comment thingadongdong?
6
Q: Privilege page for other users says "your reputation"

Simon BrownOn the privileges page for another user the reputation score is listed under your reputation, even though it's another user's score.

 
):
I ventured into the Frying Pan and they're mocking my smileys!! >_<
2
(;
 
I didn't even know you could do /privileges/user/#
 
@rchern You must have felt right at home.
@MichaelMrozek Based on Jeff's answer, that's intentional.
 
heh
 
I keep thinking we need a room named The Fire, but I can't come up with a good use case for it.
 
6:01 PM
@PopularDemand Make it anyway, we'll figure that part out later. If there's one thing this place has taught me, it's that coming up with the name is really easy and establishing a community is the hard part
2
high-fives webapps
 
oy
 
Oh hey guys!
 
@BoltClock Salut.
 
Any clue how I can thank whoever ran a recalc for me?
just a thought :)
 
@BoltClock There's no way to tell, but I'm willing to take the credit
 
6:04 PM
@MichaelMrozek lol what
 
@BoltClock Overnight a batch of fresh cookies to Stack Overflow Inc., 55 Broadway, 26th Floor, New York, NY, 10006, Attn: Whoever ran a recalc for SO user BoltClock
2
 
I'm always willing to take credit, no matter how undeserved
Similar to how I'm always willing to blame others, no matter how much something is my fault
 
@MichaelMrozek So you're the one responsible for all those mysterious server failures I've been experiencing!
... who starred my message? Was it you, @Feeds? It was, wasn't it?
 
I bet @MichaelMrozek is really the man behind Community
OK anyway on a more serious note - I just removed the [itouch] tag from a new question. Checking, I see 6 others with that tag - is it fine if I retag all those to [ipod-touch] too? Since, well, iTouch doesn't exist.
 
@BoltClock No complaints from me.
 
6:19 PM
I'm amazed how cold-hearted people are towards helping someone with their homework. I'm on my third degree now and I always appreciated help.
 
@PopularDemand: Alright, I've gone to town.
 
@LanceRoberts What do you mean, "cold-hearted"?
 
They're downvoting the heck out of me because I gave someone the code for an answer, who obviously didn't have a clue. I think good code is the best form of teaching (not that mine was as good as it could have been).
 
Downvoting a code answer to a homework question is ridiculous. If you don't want to give someone the answer that's fine, but it's not "forbidden"
 
@LanceRoberts Hm. Code doesn't explain why, on its own, so I'd call that not a good answer.
 
6:23 PM
@PopularDemand Yes, but he'll be able to work through it and see what he should have done. It will force him to examine the code to understand it.
 
@LanceRoberts I'm not so sure.
If it were me, I'd probably stare at it and not really understand what you did.
If it were some people I know, they wouldn't even bother trying to understand it.
Heck, they have the answer, right?
 
I always learned best when I had to take apart code and figure it out.
I can only assume they want to learn, as I would want to.
 
Tim
@LanceRoberts Eh, I figure it's more likely they're just looking for handouts
 
-3
A: Use of increments little prob.

Lance RobertsHere's one way: #include <iostream> using namespace std; int main () { int x,b,c; x = 1; b = 1; c = 0; while (b <= 5) { c = c + x; x+=2; b++; } cout<<x<<endl; system ("pause"); return 0; }

 
Tim
That being said...I don't really follow why people feel the need to chastise people for giving answers to those questions either.
 
6:27 PM
When I looked for questions on the web, I'm sincere, so I give everyone else the benefit of the doubt.
 
@LanceRoberts Or just paste it in and never understand it.
 
@Shog9 I'm sure there are some like that, but I answer for the honest and sincere.
 
@Tim I've chastised people for less. Worrying about what other people think of your votes is stupid.
 
@RobertMoir!
 
Perhaps commenting the code would've helped.
 
6:28 PM
@LanceRoberts honesty has nothing to do with it.
 
The really sad thing is that the OP doesn't apparently accept answers, so it's only lost me rep.
 
You know some scripture, right Lance? Consider the story of Philip and the ethiopian
 
So delete your answer
 
@RobertMoir some explanation: you're one of the three people who led to this:
3 hours ago, by Popular Demand
The SE main page's "Featured Users" section includes three Simpsons avatars. I wonder if there's a market for a Simpsons SE.
 
@LasseVKarlsen It's the right answer so I'll leave it for posterity.
 
6:30 PM
Well, to be honest, I disagree with that :P
 
The man had the law, but could not understand it. Code by itself does not necessarily benefit someone who doesn't already know the answer. Else Koders.com would beat out SO any day...
 
Not that I have downvoted you
But sometimes the right solution isn't the right answer
2
 
@LasseVKarlsen Clever.
 
Understanding > knowledge.
 
@Shog9 Yes, in a real conversation (online or otherwise) I could explain all the details, but in a Q&A format it's more limiting. I certainly would like him to understand what's going on better, but to be honest, he's really lost and it would take much more explanation than can be given in an answer. I think he'd learn more by just working through the code.
 
Tim
6:31 PM
@Shog9 Well, I agree about that. But I think it's a waste of time to camp on the question downvoting answers.
 
@Tim Oh, I agree on that
 
@LasseVKarlsen I agree with that, and even my answer isn't perfect, but I've already given my logic for why it's the right solution.
 
@mmyers - what's being tightened about programmers.se?
 
@Tim depends. I've done it before, for questions that attract lousy answers. Because no matter how much you or anyone else (even the OP!) explains why the obvious solution doesn't work, you'll still get folks showing up to suggest it again.
 
8
Q: Adding discipline to programmers.stackexchange.com

Jeff AtwoodLargely through inaction on our part, http://programmers.stackexchange.com has become a bit of a ... strange and undisciplined place. We aim to fix this! Our goal is to remove the bottom 15-20% of the "worst" programmers.se questions and disallow them as not constructive subjective questions. R...

 
Tim
6:36 PM
@Shog9 Ah, I feel like that's a different sort of scenario than what was being talked about here
 
6:48 PM
I can't believe people with > 5000 rep and 2 gold badges don't know how to flag their posts for mod attention if they want their accounts gone
I can see a rollback war soon (see the revision history)
8
Q: Parse and execute formulas with C#

Ian QuigleyHi all I am looking for an open source library to parse and execute formula/functions in C#. I would like to create a bunch of objects that derive from an interface (i.e. IFormulaEntity) which would have properties/methods/values and the allow a user to specify formulas for those objects. For ...

 
@LanceRoberts This is difficult... you obviously answered in good faith, but your learning habits place you firmly in the minority. I hope you helped him, but I think it's unlikely that you did.
 
Tim
Always nice when people call me with this long speech about how we forgot to consider something when it I already mentioned how that would be taken care of in the original plan...sigh.
 
@BoltClock Like who?
 
See my link
 
>5000 rep and 2 gold badges - but really just from one question.
 
6:50 PM
@BoltClock Ah, sorry, I thought that was unrelated.
 
@PopularDemand I can only hope also. It all comes back to the golden rule, Do unto others as you would want done to you.
 
I think it's more likely he's drunk or someone else has control of his account
 
@ColinPickard Yeah, I've seen one guy who edited all of his questions and somehow had the time to sit there and roll everything back.
 
@BoltClock Ridiculous! "**DELETE MY ACCOUNT**" shouldn't have the tags [c#], [parsing] or [language]!
 
6:52 PM
@Popular
@PopularDemand he's editing the titles
 
@LanceRoberts I learned in college to prefer the platinum rule, "do to others what they want done to them."
 
Tim
@ColinPickard Or perhaps this
 
@ColinPickard Yeah, I see it now, thanks.
 
ah ok
looks like someone with superpowers just noticed :)
back to programming questions...
 
@Tim Holy crap wow.
 
6:54 PM
@Tim too bad we can't see those deleted comments
 
@ColinPickard You can edit messages for up to two minutes after you post them, by the way. Either hit the up arrow key for the last message or use the dropdown menu > edit for others.
 
Tim
@LanceRoberts We just need a time machine..
 
oh yeah
thanks - i'll know for next time
 
status-there-are-all-kinds-of-cool-features-here
 
@PopularDemand they didn't have that back in the IRC days :)
 
6:57 PM
yea but /me is duff
 
"Why don't you guys just use IRC, man?

We're trying to build a system better and easier to use than IRC, that is native to modern web browsers. Will we support XMPP? We're not sure yet. In the meantime, there is a nascent community project to create an IRC interface to our chat. " -FAQ
FWIW.
 
@BoltClock whistles
 
If there were a bounty for creating an XMPP bridge, I'd probably look into it.
 

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