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2:03 PM
too bad!
 
Actually, @JanDvorak can you please provide a bit more explanation on what a review audit is supposed to be? I did some quick searching, but all I'm getting is it's some kind of test item.
I'm asking in reference to the earlier question about the rejected edit suggestion.
 
@Bart but that edit doesn't even make sense.
I'm assuming that's a bot-made edit?
How is mine supposed to be similar to that?
 
Yep. But the visual appearance between that edit and yours was similar. I.e. lots of red and green.
The reviewers were bad @JWLim.
Do note that it's just our assumption that was their reason though.
 
I'm unsure if I should laugh or cry :p
The bot edit is really bad though. Is this always happening?
 
2:33 PM
We all cry here every day about bad reviewers, @JWLim.
 
@JWLim Yes. It's bad on purpose. If you fail that review, you really have a problem.
And users fail those all the time.
 
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: PHP MS ACCESS CONNECTION STRING on stackoverflow.com
 
It's not a bot, they're generated using a complex algorithm based on real suggested edits
 
I see.
Well, thanks for clearing that up! I suppose there's no way of trying to 'avoid' these things.
 
You mean avoid audits? There are ways to easily detect audit, if that's what you mean
 
2:37 PM
@Benjamin I like your question. Quite good.
 
I meant avoiding people thinking that my edits are audits.
 
Unfortunately not no.
 
@Undo ty, I was wondering if that was on topic.
 
@JWLim you'll need mind control tool, which apart of not existing yet, will be illegal in most countries. ;-)
This one survive for way too long
-4
Q: How to create toggle changing two other images as like plus/minus(no header content) with also showing hide contents

user3351691If somebody click on image, then the hidden content should show as well as the image also change.

Wake up guys! :D
 
My suggested edit was rejected in 4 seconds!
 
2:42 PM
@3ventic wow
 
by community because @rene edited it too
 
oh, it's an auto reject
yeah, very common
 
sorry @3ventic
 
np
 
I just remembered I found a weird display issue will I was on my MSO fast. I should report that.
 
2:48 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive title detected: what is the story behind Taliban shit ? on history.stackexchange.com
 
@rene don't apologise to him! Laugh!
 
I try to be nice...
 
that is being nice
 
Laughter is the best medicine.
 
I hope my edit on the Taliban question doesn't bring me into trouble
 
3:03 PM
It's off topic to begin with
I left a comment to the user
 
Sam
Hi guys
do you know any one of the staff who is really caring about people and keeping this community a fair place?
 
Community Managers @Sam
You can reach them via the contact form
 
@TimPost is a good choice, when he'll be back
 
See the contact link at the bottom of the site
 
And Community moderators.
 
3:06 PM
hahaha
 
Sam
Why laughing?
 
Bart and I just had a moment.
 
Because I first said "Community moderators" where I meant managers. Jadarnel then said "Community Managers". I fixed mine, he changed his. Hilarity ensues ...
 
Sam
Mega can become really harsh if someone simply tries to say: "something is not working"
:D
 
3:08 PM
It requires a thicker skin every now and then, yes.
 
Sam
yes, fun!
I guess you see that my posts are not that bad
if I say that China shoots people to prevent crimes
 
Nope. Not in terms of quality. But that's not always what meta votes are about
 
Sam
and I state that for sure it's effective.. but also very unfair
and add that almost everywhere it's easy to make very strong punishment
for keeping the things going
every one would agree
if I try to ask: "is it fair to advice moderator to use exponential punishment without writing it in the FAQ and without warning the guy"
downvote, downvote, downvote => ban
is it that fair? :(
 
Well, you need a shitload of downvotes on Meta to be banned. (Or a crap-ton, depending on what system you use). But it seems the community disagrees with your point of view
 
@Bart problem is that dear @Sam here already got that shitload of downvotes :(
 
3:14 PM
Ooh ... take a step back there
 
Sam
deleted
 
@Sam it's really time for you to stop arguing your point. You've had discussions with at least 2 employees as well as at least 2 mods, that I know of
 
If you want any sort of sympathy and help from me, don't go there
 
Sam
ok
sorry I have to go..
I think if the rules changes what happened to me will not be possible any more in the future
you know that it wasn't fair
see you later..
 
@Sam it absolutely was.
 
3:19 PM
Meta question ban for starting unpopular discussions isn't really fair in my opinion too. Unless Sam is referring to something else not being fair?
 
@ShadowWizard something else
 
Oh, OK then - not enough details for me :)
 
;)
 
@ShadowWizard Though by now you'd have to pretty consistently be "unpopular" to get banned on Meta. There are several users I'd expect to be banned there, but who are most definitely not.
 
@ShadowWizard he started about a dozen meta discussions that were all essentially "it's not fair"
 
3:22 PM
The latest discussion wasn't really about "it's not fair" but trying to discuss something pretty legit. Not a great discussion or anything, but also shouldn't throw him off the cliff IMO
 
the context here is endless argumentation about whether the rules & community practice on putting questions on hold is to his liking (it isn't, natch), but the suspension came when he finally ran afoul of Godwin's Law
 
(2nd suspension, actually)
 
3:37 PM
right. I don't know what the circumstances around his first one were.
 
almost the exact same.
 
Election bets?
 
Ah, on SR. I was wondering why you were chiming in @Undo. :D
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I bet 50 mSO rep it's not me.
 
I bet there will be 3 new mods @BenjaminGruenbaum
 
3:39 PM
Wow, Sam is still here discussing that ban?
@Bart I bet there will be 4, plot twist :P
 
dundunDUNNNN
 
@Undo I think you'd make a fair mod.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum he was. he's dormant now.
 
I think @bluefeet is an obvious favorite. I wonder if Bohemian will do well in the election itself too.
 
Bluefeet in #1 I would assume
After that I really don't know
 
3:40 PM
Got a negative meta vibe from Bohemian, but he seems to be trying which is good.
I'm also kind of rooting for Jon to be a mod because he's very nice and polite and made a good impression on me.
 
I vote for BenCollins to be a mod! :D
 
hahahah
well.....lookie there...I am a mod ;-)
 
Shiny diamond
 
Nah, not @BenCollins. That guy is just ... ah..ehm ... just .... great. Great is what I meant ... look a squirrel!
Looking through the list I really don't know who the 2nd and 3rd are going to be
 
Devs should have different icon, e.g. §
 
3:47 PM
 
Anyone thinks Doorknob has real chance of being elected?
@BenCollins good choice! +1
@LaszloPapp why?
 
Not sure if he's known enough @ShadowWizard.
 
I thought Doorknob's nomination was a joke when I first read it.
 
He got to the top 10, @Bart.
@jadarnel27 nah, he's a serious young guy. His friend on the other hand...
 
3:49 PM
@ShadowWizard: why what?
 
Sure @ShadowWizard. And I think he might make a decent mod. If not now, then later.
 
@LaszloPapp why should we close the question? Can't see any obvious reason it's not on topic
 
@ShadowWizard: have you actually read the comments?
 
I read the question, not comments. Comments should not make question off topic.
 
I would encourage you to read the comments before talking about the question too much in advance.
 
3:51 PM
I would encourage you to be more clear when asking for a close vote.
 
If you mean duplicate it's another matter but can't see any existing duplicate close votes
 
@jadarnel27 he's on my list. We've talked and interacted several time both in the chat and in the site and I thought he was ~30 until he said he's young.
 
what is another matter?
 
Plus not familiar enough with the language to decide
 
duplicate is perfectly a valid close vote reason.
@Bart: I really do not understand how it would be any clearer.
 
3:52 PM
If you ask to close as duplicate it's different than asking just to close
 
eh?
 
[pls-cv] link. It's a duplicate of X @LaszloPapp
 
@Bart: sorry, have no idea what point you are trying to make.
 
@Bart actually the syntax is [tag:cv-pls] or better [tag:cv-pls] [tag:dupe]
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum to make it red?
 
3:54 PM
@Bart: in fact, I made a mistake because a link should have been enough.
 
@LaszloPapp no it's not
you can't barge in here and ask us to close stuff
 
yes, for people who do not care to read 1-2 liner comments, of course not.
but those'd better not vote either.
 
@ShadowWizard to make it red and ping users with with the cv extension, put it in the backlog if in the php room and box it in a nice readable way.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Whatever it is, being more clear would have helped.
 
@Bart Oh, I can't disagree with that. I agree with you here.
Also, I just said the same thing twice.
 
3:55 PM
"barge"... I am losing my motivation to help with the clean up. That does not look like a friendly word, but it might be just a language barrier.
 
s/barge/saunter
 
Sorry you feel this way @LaszloPapp but I don't feel a friendly vibe either. Anyway, I'm not trying to stop you from closing just saying that if you want help from others, it's always a good thing to explain your point of view.
 
@ShadowWizard: I do not need help from others. I am trying to help others (readers of the site).
It is not like I pursue on a simple close vote, but discussing it that long when there is two 1-2 liner clear comments, is well, not worth my time, so I will bail out here. :)
 
Sure you do, when you post questions you think are closeworthy here you're asking for help from others in closing them. The fact you're not doing this for yourself is nice, but irrelevant to what @ShadowWizard was saying.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Unless he has CV-Tourette's. In which case I take back everything I said.
 
4:00 PM
You have this pattern where you a) say that people not agreeing with everything you say is demotivating to you b) argue about it instead of take the criticism c) as soon as sound arguments are made for the other stance say things are not worth your time. We know you mean well and we're all trying to help the site - but you've got to see how this might look from our angle.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum nicely said!
 
WAIT A MINUTE
IS DRAMA HAPPENING HERE?
 
nah, nothing to see here @Flyk
 
@Flyk not every time people are talking to eachother it's drama
OR IS IT?
Is this a Llama I see coming?
 
oh :(
I have this huge bag of popcorn to eat and no entertainment to eat it to
 
meh, I can't be seen clicking on github links, sorry
 
Oh yeah, people might think that's work.
 
@Flyk yep it will install a Llama virus on all of your machines :D
 
my PC is immune to viruses, I don't browse porn
 
Unfortunately Winamp is no more. It really whips the llama's ass!
 
4:05 PM
Actually people don't understand that porn sites are the safest sites in the internet, their owners have good reason to keep them virus free ;)
 
I'm glad you didn't use the word "clean" anywhere in that sentence
I like how the entire star list in here is all about one guy wanting to migrate crap to SR
this makes me happy
 
lol
Hooray!
and it's even working
 
-1
A: how to print signed hex in c

Chris Hansen"It’s fine to disagree and express concern, but please be civil. There’s a real human being on the other end of that network connection, however misguided they may appear to be. We’re here to learn from our peers, not yell at each other." LOL. These sites are always flowing with obnoxious, passi...

 
Now that's obvious @LaszloPapp, thanks for providing the link.
 
meh
 
4:09 PM
@ShadowWizard not for me.
 
Are we still doing freehand red circles?
 
You're saying there's another way?
 
I just want to make sure I'm posting on Meta right.
 
5 upvotes ... myeah
 
@Undo only in Meta
 
4:11 PM
I guess you could use that circle tool.
 
Oooh, okay @ShadowWizard
 
@jadarnel27 nooo, no tools
free hand
 
But the changes propogate to the other sites too :D
 
@Undo not yet, only if they see it's not buggy
 
@ShadowWizard Move a site around and save it, then open the site-switcher gizmo on a non-mSO site.
 
4:13 PM
@Bart we will see. Bohemian killed me in the primary
 
nvm, stuff's working again
 
@bluefeet Ah, didn't see that. Some days ago some of us agreed you were the only no-brainer vote this year.
 
@Undo not working, like I said, only on Meta :)
 
Works for me.
 
yeah, bohemian got the most votes.
 
4:17 PM
... in the primary.
 
@Bart we will know soon enough
 
Election stage is different.
@ShadowWizard ^ Something worked for me
 
@Undo, I think everyone is aware of that in here, but I might be mistaken.
 
huh?
 
you are telling me in the primary when it was already written, and I just confirmed.
 
4:20 PM
I managed to manipulate it as well. Added a different community in mSO and it persisted in SO
 
@Undo The order is maintained. You just can't edit it on SO.
 
@LaszloPapp okay
 
Or any other not MSO site.
 
@Bart Yes. Editing on mSO and having it persist everywhere else is enough for me :D
 
Easily pleased.
 
4:22 PM
What @Bart said x2
 
Sam
@ShadowWizard yes, I was referring to being automatically banned for opening unpopoular question on meta..
@Undo your behaviour looked to me also not that fair. But it's possible that I'm wrong on that.
 
@Sam that doesn't happen for a single one. Nor for two.
 
You really need to drop this. You're just digging yourself a deeper hole
 
Sam
@Bart what are you referring with "that"?
@Undo Undo.. you seem an intelligent people
but would you understand if you were wrong?
 
Yes, I would. You aren't, though, and you need to drop this.
 
Sam
4:30 PM
Otherwise I will be banned also from here?
I guess
just tell me yes and I will drop
Immediately
 
It's possible, yes
 
@Sam chill out
 
Sam
@Undo ok, question dropped :)
you see.. it was really easy it was eough to say that it's forbidden to express freely
 
I have to say a meta ban is quite impressive
 
Sam
and to complain about moderator's behaviour
 
@JanDvorak it's on Stack Overflow, I wish I could be surprised
 
Sam
@Undo: I've dropped the question about SR ban. No problem with that :)
 
but if I acted surprised for every time this happened I'd be constantly surprised
@Sam you're still talking about it
 
@Sam: fwiw, you are not the only one not fully happy about SR, but yeah, it is better to concentrate on the things that are positive, IMHO.
 
Sam
@BenCollins what is Godwin's Law
 
4:35 PM
Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is an assertion made by American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990 In other words, Godwin said that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis. Although in one of its early forms Godwin's law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions, the law is now often applied to any threaded online discussion, such as forums, chat rooms and blog comment threads, and has been invoked for the inapprop...
@LaszloPapp aren't you the guy that did the thing that caused the whatsit that resulted in all the stars on the star list?
 
Sam
@LaszloPapp I'm not happy not for SR.. but about the exponential punishment without any explicit warning on the last of the ban and the fact that this is written in the guidelines, neither in the help section
 
@Sam: I also suggested the guideline for them, but they did not like it. They lead that stuff, so just leave it with them.
 
Sam
I also think it's not fair to be banned from meta because of opening unpopoular question.
 
@Sam maybe you were explicitly warned, I'm not privvy to all that hidden stuff, but consider that you got banned twice now, take that as two warnings and do something about it
@Sam there will be more to it than this
 
@Sam: you are not obliged to go there, and there are other places that may be more cheerful for you.
 
Sam
4:38 PM
@Flyk what can I do? I will simply stop writing in Meta of SR
easy
 
@Sam: perhaps you can create your own site and/or community with your guidelines if you think you have different values. It is OK to have different values.
 
@Sam you could do this, or you could do what I asked you to do before you got banned the first time and put more consideration into what you say to ensure that you can't be misunderstood and that you can articulate your point of view in a manner that doesn't come across badly
 
should I have rejected this?
 
Sam
@Flyk but.. have a look on my last question on meta.so.. how can I put more effort to be not misunderstood?
 
@JanDvorak IMO no
 
4:40 PM
@JanDvorak it's a link only answer, it shouldn't even exist
 
uh, wait... context
 
@JanDvorak: I would have.
 
@Sam ok I've looked
 
The edit is fine, the answer isn't
 
not asking the same question twice would have been a good start
 
Sam
4:42 PM
Ah, what do you mean?
 
not dismissing Stack Exchange's past experience in these things because it disagrees with some thing you read on the internet would be another
@Sam I mean you asked two questions about deleting answers, and they both got closed
 
@JanDvorak: but at the very least, I would have improved it. It is useful, but poor.
 
Sam
@Flyk I'm not sure to understand..
I mean this question:
-12
Q: How is suspensions being administered to the members?

SamThe last of the first suspension can me changed by moderators, but, by default, it's lasting 7 days. The second one 30 days, the third one 365 days. An exponential model fits the raise of the suspension duration. This kind of restriction is effective in preventing users from repeating actions w...

 
@Sam oh right, you did that
 
@Sam Let's see. You pinged moderator after moderator after getting a "no" from each one.
Maybe it's you who is misunderstanding what they are saying?
 
4:46 PM
General rule: unless you're 100% sure you're right and that the entire moderation team is against you, and the world is ending, and the apocalypse has begun, don't cross post about being banned
and from personal experience, no matter how much you want it to be true, the whole moderation team isn't against you, nor is the world ending
 
Sam
@Manishearth but... come on.. why in some countries the laws are really restrictive?
 
Ask the lawmakers of those countries
 
Sam
I think, because after a strong punishment, every one will simply obey
 
@Sam explain what you mean, because I doubt either of us understand what you're actually trying to say
 
@Sam What does that have anything to do with this?
 
4:48 PM
see ^
 
You do realize that Stack Exchange and countries are totally different? SE is a website. The most they can punish you is by not letting you post content. Countries can affect your life directly.
 
Sam
@Manishearth yes, I know
 
I did hear some rumors that SE was closely tied to the North Korean regime
rumors, though
 
Then, don't bring them up. It doesn't work that wau.
@JeroenVannevel lol
 
Sam
@JeroenVannevel ahahah
 
4:49 PM
@Sam I think the important thing you need to consider here, using Stack Exchange is a privilege, not a right - that privilege can be taken away for whatever reason the people who regulate the site feel warrants it
 
Sam
@Flyk I'm pretty sure of this
 
Kinda like the privilege of entering a store.
 
and that is ... pretty sad.
I wonder if anyone is working on an open source replacement.
 
There's several open-source alternatives available
 
@LaszloPapp There already are many.
 
4:50 PM
477
Q: Stack Overflow clones

Andrija CacanovicListed here are clones of the Stack Exchange sites model.

 
@Sam So then complaining that your privilege got taken away isn't going to do you any favours, and the best way to get it back is to ask the people who banned you what you need to do to prevent further conflict
 
@Manishearth: very popular, all-catching, really, where?
 
Sam
@Flyk I've tried yesterday
 
@Bart Ah, there it is.
 
Sam
Maybe I can try better
 
4:51 PM
it is possible Google will create something, and modify their search engine respectively, but it is not there now.
 
@Sam and if you didn't get the answer you were expecting, complaining more about it will only work against you
 
Sam
but let me say one thing I should not say...
 
@LaszloPapp "Very popular" -- you seem to be confusing open source software with particular installations of a software
 
@Sam if you shouldn't say it then don't say it.
 
The funny thing is, the reason SE is a success is not as much a credit to the software as it is to the way posts are handled. Which is the same thing people want to get rid of when they say they want to make a new website.
 
Sam
4:52 PM
but it's the truth...
 
@Manishearth: I began the open source world when you were a couple of years old person. :)
 
Knowing you shouldn't say it and then saying it anyway only causes trouble
 
Sam
I know I'm rigth in sayng that
 
@LaszloPapp So?
 
@Sam Your perception of "right" is not in context with you not being in control of the environment you're saying it in
 
4:52 PM
totally relevant:
19
Q: What form of government does StackExchange resemble?

AlexIt's not representative democracy, because the decisions are taken by the entire community, but they are weighted :P The closest one that comes into my mind is the "Venus project" :)

 
@LaszloPapp All I'm saying is that what you seem to be looking for is a popular installation of the software. Not a popular software.
 
Sam
@Flyk I know it's the truth and I also know it will only bring me problems
 
@Manishearth: no, I am looking for an open source replacement.
in every sense possible.
 
@LaszloPapp Take OSQA then
 
@LaszloPapp There are more components to Stack Exchange than just the engine
 
4:53 PM
if SE decides tomorrow to withdraw this, we will be stuck.
 
@Sam you know full well at this point that you weren't "banned for opening unpopular questions". It's time to stop bringing your argument here.
 
You won't get a "replacement" because you won't get the "community"
 
@Braiam I still say making political parallels to the system is extremely misguided.
 
actually, open governed would be even better than just open source.
 
@LaszloPapp Not really, the database dumps are hosted independently than SE
 
Sam
4:54 PM
@BenCollins ?
Undo asked me to drop
 
@Sam and yet you're still going :)
 
@LaszloPapp Yeah, that's what I was saying. That's what you want, not the software.
 
@GraceNote my point... SE is not politics but several individuals with a mesh of rules
 
Sam
but if you want I can explain very clearly why I got banned on SR and why I got banned on meta.sr
 
@Manishearth: I am not sure I can follow you.
 
Sam
4:55 PM
@Flyk no, not speaking of SR ban any more
 
@Braiam I always liked the store parallel.
 
Sam
I'm just saying that I know that saying the truth will lead me many problems
 
@LaszloPapp I'm saying that the software is not as important as the policies behind it. SE is a success mainly due to the policies, not so much the software (which is intuitive and awesome, though)
 
@Sam we all know why you got banned, and we don't want it to take up any more of our time. If you persist, I will kick you from the room. If you come back and start it up again, I will chatban you. You're welcome to talk about almost anything else under the sun.
 
@Sam what you are saying is your truth which boils down to your point of view, we simply don't share your point of view or truth for what matters
 
Sam
4:56 PM
@BenCollins ok, understood
can I say just another thing? one sentence?
 
@Sam no.
 
Sam
@BenCollins ok
 
not about that subject, anyway
 
@Manishearth: no, I am very much interested in the software, too.
 
Sam
@BenCollins as you want. It was just one sentence.
 
4:57 PM
@LaszloPapp ah, k
 
and actually, that is probably the most important.
because if you do not like policies, you can take the software, and create your own policies.
(if it is open source, properly licensed, etc)
but yes, SE has a huge handicap on google, which could probably be only killed by google or SE itself.
 
@LaszloPapp what's important is that the software is open source, nothing more
Anyway, never mind
FWIW some people on Physics were setting up a parallel site for high level questions and importing dumps
 

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