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12:26 AM
Nice. Though I haven't done any .Net programming in a while, I'd jump all over that...if i had the rep.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:48 AM
Google-Verizon Pact: It Gets Worse - huffingtonpost.com/craig-aaron/…
 
 
8 hours later…
10:39 AM
@NickCraver: did you check out that crazy jsFiddle bug?
 
i did, it's the return character difference, will see if oskar can take a look today
 
cool. It seems like a really odd issue, but I run into it every now and again when copy/paste repeating code into the editor.
 
right now i'm doing a 1.8.2 to 1.8.4 diff on jQuery UI to see what changed
not sure why the 1.8.3 release was sketchy as well, it's tagged in github, but on google code:
both 1.8.3 and 1.8.4 seem to reference 1.8.4, when only 1.8.3 is listed in google's cache: code.google.com/apis/libraries/devguide.html#jqueryUI
someone shouldn't have upload permissions
 
thought i could trust their releases guess not though, changing our production code to specifically point to 1.8.2 instead of 1.8 right now
 
10:46 AM
yeah it does seem a little odd. Is there no difference then?
 
@Nick ... jeez you are ahead of Jon Skeet this month congrats codeka.com.au/Solt/League/SO/2010/8
 
Yeah, well done @Nick.
 
11:01 AM
someone made a tracker?
i saw the idea on meta but didn't know someone built it heh
cool, thanks :)
 
I wonder how many of Jon Skeet's are 'farmed' (if that's the term)
 
residuals you mean? votes from older posts people happen upon later?
 
yeah (I like farmed better ;))
looking at eric lippert (page 3), he's only answered one question in august, and got 586 rep all the same
 
Someone worked it out on meta a while ago, can't remember which question it was
 
could query it on odata too, at least potential rep
 
11:11 AM
anyway, yuck, lists like that make me feel a bit measly again :(
Being in the top 3% is no consolation when the long tail is so long
 
i honestly just have too much spare time in our current dev cycle, it's about to kick up again though about 1-2 weeks from now
 
I just need to start getting interested and learn something new probably.
I've had all the low-hanging fruit and F#, and stopped playing with it so much recently as well
 
I have days where I spend a lot of time on SO, and others where I go on but I'm "distracted" by my work (!) so I don't answer anything quick enough. Sometimes I'll load a question while I'm doing something in my browser and then answer it half an hour later.
 
and now with this chat thing...
 
at the moment, SO seems more appealing than these cascading date linq to oracle queries :-/
business logic, what could possibly go wrong?
"for sites set to monthly we need a notification for all months where the call wasn't made by the forth monday"....sure, seems simple enough
if only linq had CTEs heh
 
11:22 AM
And I'm refactoring spaghetti code not of my own making into different spaghetti code which will be of my own making - so I'm won't even have the mitigating pleasure of blaming it on someone else :(
 
awww no crutch :)
 
It's that horrible type of code where every place you think you see a bit of commonality which you could factor out, there is an exception. sigh
 
it it makes you feel better, my current web app was a object tree fetched to the tune of 6000+ queries on startup that was used to generate every form on the fly via reflection....before I was given permission to scrap it and start over
decisions made before you took the contract = mystery
 
11:37 AM
@waffles wow; I'm way down lately. I blame you guys for keeping me too busy
Good to see C# has now hit 100k questions, though
 
@Marc we were discussing that with @Jeff today, he has made you way too busy :)
 
actually, I think a bigger change is that I used to fill in some time in my commute.
I had a way too long commute, so had to do something
Now my commute is "walk downstairs" - and when I've finished, the family wants my time
which is nice
 
:) well my commute these days ... roll out of bed head to home office ... 15 second commute
 
we'd better stop; they'll lynch us
 
well it has its disadvantages ... your are ALWAYS at work
we implemented a "very poor questions can not longer be asked" filter today
 
11:41 AM
I don't think I'd like a micro commute.
 
yes... it is way too easy to "just check on something", which turns into an hour. And then (like last night) Scott H arrives just as you were reaching for the power button. Cue another hour.
 
I once went from 1.5hr commute to 5 minutes. When coming home, I just kept driving. Felt way too short.
 
lol
 
@spoulson - so.... walk?
 
I'd probably get killed if I did
PA drivers and all...
 
11:43 AM
@waffles how did you filter "poor questions"
 
well the algorithm is not totally public to save us from gaming, but if historically you only posted negative scoring stuff you will be banned from asking question beyond 2
 
@spoulson I had a 20 minute commute, then my roommates bailed, and I had to find a new place, now it's a 2 hour commute to work.
 
Maybe there could be some ratio of views to answers. I tend to read, then disregard sucky questions.
 
ah dammit - killed the stars... (goes back to looking at the css)
 
@waffles uh oh. Is there a meta Q for that so I can write one of my long tirades?
 
11:45 AM
@devinb Roommates are so undependable.
 
@devinb meaning you would like people that only post crap to still be able to post crap no matter what ? :)
 
@spoulson Especially when you're out of country. When I was in Switzerland I had a 5 minute commute to work.
@Waffles I've been fairly and consistently vocal about my belief that reforming is better than restraining or forbidding.
 
the idea now is that if you notice a user asking crap, the key to getting the crap to stop is downvoting OR downvoting and closing
 
@devinb, where were you?
 
@devinb, the system totally supports reforming
 
11:47 AM
@Benjol, Zurich. Glattbrugg.
 
@waffles, downvoting and leaving a comment, of course :)
 
You can always answer questions (even if you are not allowed to ask them any more)
 
@devinb, ok, I'm in french-speaking part.
 
@Waffles, which is why I was hoping there was a meta Q so that I could read up rather than argue with you about things I don't know about :D
I'll always argue, but I prefer to know enough to win :p
 
54
Q: Can we prevent some of the low-quality questions from entering our system?

Jeff AtwoodStack Overflow has been wildly successful. And maybe in some ways too successful. I am concerned that Stack Overflow is being inundated by a stream of low-quality questions from users who are accidentally poisoning our well -- by turning off and turning away the core answerers who do all the rea...

 
11:49 AM
Isn't that what the voting system is for?
Craps gets the downvote.
 
@Benjol, I'm likely getting sent back to finish the project in a couple of weeks. Oh Adecco, so much glory.
 
I've seen it happen pretty quickly
 
@spoulson, sure but at some point you have produced so much crap we do not want you to continue
its a strain on the community
 
At the same time, crap is relative. On one hand, an entry level PHP question may be asked in broken English, but it probably still helped someone else.
 
I looked at about 50 of the 600 accounts that can no longer ask questions. No false positives ..
 
11:51 AM
@waffles I think there's a tension between revealing enough that the malicious could game it, and being completely opaque. This one sounds like kind of a big deal.
As in, Jeff says that it happens all the time (not all the time, but it's a big enough deal to implement this) and so it means that a lot of users could be affected.
 
I'll give you a few examples
 
My fervent hope is that the users will be adequately informed as to how to get back in good graces.
that's it.
 
work slacking time
for 8 minutes
 
If you say "they are", then I'm completely on board.
 
9
Q: Is it possible to cook a whole fish in a dishwasher?

AttilaNYCI heard that there is a way to cook a whole fish in a dishwasher - any techniques, tips??

 
11:53 AM
Well our error message could be improved .. this is just a first pass
 
@waffles, what about prior warning, is there any of that?
 
@waff: what message do they receive?
 
no prior warning, you just get a message when you submit a question that you are not allowed to anymore. the warning is the consistent donwvotes
 
what about the flip side, people providing continuously incorrect answers, not as in "this isn't the best way", i mean blatantly wrong answers
 
the message is "Sorry, we are no longer accepting questions from this account."
@Nick well the questions issue is much more important to address, that is a cancer on our front page
 
11:56 AM
@Waff, that's just my perspective. I'm all for punishing the wicked, and enhancing the experience of the regulars, but all those people who are "poor users" could become excellent users.
 
@waff: is there some way for the users to "repent" and have the asking ban removed?
 
StackOverflow craves questions (good ones) and as long as the spark is there.
 
The ban is dynamic ...
 
we can edit it into shape.
 
answer questions well and the ban is lifted
 
11:57 AM
Whoa! I just realized two things. We're attacking Waff (primarily me) on what I assume is his break, and in the "Tavern" to boot.
 
It sounds like it might encourage downvoting poorly written questions more, which I like :-)
@dev: i'm not attacking, just being inquisitive :)
 
I did the same queries on SU and they come back pretty empty (600 users are affected on SO) SU are much more vigilant with account banning
 
Well, hammering him with questions isn't exactly "friendly" :p
 
yeah, quality vs. low entry barrier is always going to be a difficult tightrope I guess
 
They like scalping ;p
 
11:58 AM
:)
 
oops;still logged in as my test account...
 
SU seems like more of a hit and run site than all the others though
 
@theblueunicorn that's better
 
I would think they'd need more banning
@Marc - secret fetish eh?
 
@waffles, your example user seems more stupid than malicious, though I guess the end result is the same..
 
12:00 PM
for unicorns. ahh! they're found me out
 
@Nick me too, but I think moderation on SO is just so much harder
 
@waffles in what way? Not that I disagree just curious from a mod's POV
 
also, key about this whole process is that we look at closed / deleted quesions as well
 
I know the scale alone is so much different, what other factors?
 
@Nick the scale alone ... that is the main factor ...
 
12:01 PM
gotcha
 
Also we have the homework / do my work for me types on SO
you don't get them on SU
 
I've only come across one user that I've seen as an overall negative contribution to the site thus far, let me see if I can find them
oh i mean as an example of answers
if you look at his last 30, even the upvoted ones are or were initially incorrect
 
ahhh ... sorry about that ... pass that to @Marc ... he may see it fit to discipline
 
@waffles, I'm assuming on that last example there are lots of deleted questions? once bad one seems a bit of a small sample size ;)
 
i fault the upvoters for that as much as the poster, but is the contribution positive or negative? the user does have some useful posts
 
12:04 PM
@Benjol yes ... its so annoying these users quite often hide behind deleted questions eg: stackoverflow.com/questions/1467967/…
 
i'm not for or against banning someone, but a discussion might be appropriate
 
Well, you could argue that there is still value in having wrong answers, with Nick's excellent explanation as to why it is wrong.
(note I'm excluding spam/garbage from that)
 
@Marc - good point, I wish more of the negative votes had comments in these cases
 
> This is a very, very bad way to solve the problem...
;p (from Nick, but he did explain a lot more too)
 
:)
 
12:06 PM
@waffles, sorry, not enough rep :)
 
there's no way for 10k to see a deleted list for a user is there, besides google?
 
@Nick don't think so, if you really need it post on meta ...
 
Sure: just a little leg-work first to get elected (or employed) for a â™Ĥ ;p
and that user doesn't have any deleted AFAIK
 
@Marc - that was more for every person finding it on google later, it was voted +2 at the time...wanted to make sure no one actually used that code :)
 
@waffles: yes? er... no?
 
12:09 PM
@waffles - I wouldn't, I tend to look at it with a single piece of criteria in mind
 
but as I was saying I have a list 600 long of similar quality askers, somebody has to stop this ...
 
"is this useful to be found via google later?"
 
@waffles: and that someone is... WaffleMan!
 
batman song in my head now, thanks andy
 
nanananananana WaffleMan!
 
12:10 PM
/me gets nervous going into great negative depth on specific users; wonders whether "chat" falls into "slander" vs "libel"
 
deleting ...
 
@waffles - can you delete my profile link as well? too old here
 
im in the wrong room ... should be showing specific examples in the mod room :)
 
gracias
 
@MarcGravell: what is the world coming to when you can't talk negatively about a person on the Internet?
 
12:12 PM
i don't mean to single out users, just the only example I could find...granted everyone has their programming areas on SO, at least in the sections I take a look at, I don't come across any other consistently "negative" users, which is a good thing
 
I think that most of us non-mods, non-team users don't need to know the gruesome details, we just want reassuring that things are being done fairly, and with 'due process'.
 
anyway , the point is we need to wait and see, hopefully these noise questions are getting in the way of good questions, and stopping the noise will improve the avg good
@benjol @Marc is right, no good ever comes out of a lynch mob
 
@Nick @Andy @Benjol and I think is fine within reason (discussing the behaviour, not the individual) - I suspect waffles and me need to tread a little more carefully ;p
 
that is why @Marc is a community moderator :)
for the record, I voted for @Marc back in the day
 
as an aside, is there any way to view your own downvotes?
 
12:15 PM
So I guess, what we would like is some anecdotal evidence that the front page is looking a bit better or not .. in the next couple of days
 
@Nick - there used to be way back in the day. Not now. Not even â™Ĥ can show that.
 
@Nick nope
 
what about the rep audit?
 
not sure what the downvote type is lemme see
 
It's 3
but it shows -2 for a downvote against you, -1 for a downvote you've given
Along with the post ID
 
12:17 PM
got to run folks, I hope I did not shake stuff up too much :)
 
can't see the post though
 
later
 
later sam :)
 
cya @waff
@Nick: what do you mean "can't see the post"?
 
12:18 PM
ID of 1044232 , should that be stackoverflow.com/posts/1044232 ?
get a 404
 
the /posts/ url stopped working
 
works for me
 
oo posts/xxx/revisions still works
 
12:19 PM
@andyeshead me too, FWIW
 
@Nick: you wrote /question/ instead of /questions/
 
doh
ty
 
I started a GM script that parsed the rep audit and I was going to make it do stuff like link to posts you downvoted. I lost interest a few weeks back though :P
3
Q: More reputation audit lies!?

Andy E's headI noticed this bug whilst writing a greasemonkey script to "borrow" some information from the rep audit page and display it under the reputation tab in the user profile. My rep audit shows 263 days represented, for a few tests on the bug I had my script count the number of "date boundaries" in t...

that's as far as I got with it
 
weird
rep report only shows 2 (-1) entries
 
Maybe some were cancelled out by day cap?
 
12:22 PM
@Nick: 4 of those posts have probably been deleted.
 
(just a thought)
Hey @Jarrod - all well?
 
I though they'd be -1 and recouped possibly later with a +1 before the end of the day?
maybe not, time to hunt
 
(feigns ignorance; didn't touch it guv')
 
o found a third, was searching for (-1), forgot about the [-1] after the cap for the day
 
Am I too mean? I have downvoted 244 times on SO :-P
 
12:30 PM
Me: 464 - but then, I've upvoted 8850 times
 
I've upvoted 1887 times
 
+2243, -3 here
 
and if I see anything too out of place I can just kill it without messing around with things like voting...
 
though i debate that -3, as they're missing from my rep report!
 
mwhahahahaha
 
12:32 PM
@NickCraver: Maybe our good friend Marc here can fix you up with a recalc :P
 
does a recalc...recalc vote counts?
 
you want a recalc? np - just confirm
@Nick - not AFAIK
 
if you don't mind
trying to see where the discrepancy is
 
68,115 => 68,115 ;p
 
12:33 PM
really?
 
right - I've gotta run; but I'm glad to see people being all "community" etc
 
rep report says 68099
 
Discrepancy's gone - it only shows 3 downvotes in your profile now
 
something's amiss
 
Cya @MarcGravell
 
12:34 PM
@andy - I removed three, those 3 are the ones I can't find :)
later @marc, thanks!
 
lol oh ok
 
oh nice they changed the bottom to be explicit as well
days represented 282
rep cap was reached via rep from upvotes *only* on 163 days
rep cap was exceeded on 195 days
 
yeah. That was when they fixed the broken rep audit stuff
 
i saw it there before, but the messages were a bit ambiguous iirc
 
yeah, I guess Jeff saw implementing the fixes as an opportunity to improve the other stuff a little too
I noticed you got a reversal badge for this:
 
12:38 PM
om nom nom
You can't beat a good ham salad sandwich
 
oh sweet, didn't notice that one
...or that reversal is gold
 
lol
Closest I've got to Reversal is +8 on a -5.
 
it's a crap shoot on that one i think
i've seen a lot of questions on SO, and honeslty I have no idea what the community will all of the sudden +20 on any given day
 
yeah it's weird. I might have reached +20 if someone hadn't removed the jQuery tag from the question ;-)
 
link?
 
12:43 PM
-5
Q: How do I return a value from a javascript function

Calibre2010Say I have a function function myFunction(myValue) { // do something } How would I return a value from this, say a string type after the method is executed?

I can't help but feel a bit sorry for the OP. The question seemed genuine enough. I'm not into pity upvoting though.
 
that was a valid tag removal ;)
 
yeah :-)
 
that comment is awesome
 
return $("Hello".split("")).map(function(){ return this }).get().join(""); ?
 
yeah
even $(this).attr('id') gets me
 
12:46 PM
Not knowing that jQuery is a library on top of Javascript gets me
 
Another .is(":checked") here:
1
A: jquery with radio button

June RTry this : $('#radio_div input:radio').click(function() { if($(this).is(':checked')) { $(this).val(); // $(this).attr('value'); } });

 
yep, all the bypasses of a direct property, @spoulson that's definitely the root of it
it came up a while back in this question:
4
Q: Being good in jQuery == Being good in Javascript??

p0larBoyI'm pretty efficient in jQuery, having implementing it in several projects for my company. However, I found myself a little lost when reading stuff like node.js. Do i have to go back to basics and learn the javascript language or should i just stick with jQuery? One more thing i would like to a...

woops first line of my answer was wrong, no one noticed :-/
 
I noticed, was just about to ask you about it :p
 
fixed!
 
> is .innerHTML consistent? Yes, e.g. <select> in IE.
 
12:49 PM
yeah, woops...thing is I remember editing that, oh well
 
you had a -1, that might have been from someone who knew that line was wrong
 
ah could be
i just don't understand the not-wanting-to-learn mentality, it baffles me. you're doing this 8+ hours a day in most cases, why not try and be good at it?
for all of programming, or hell any profession
 
You see a lot of promotion for poor programming practices (possible new tongue-twister?) on Stack Overflow, though. A lot of misinformation gets upvoted, too.
Take this answer:
 
yup, not sure what to do about the latter
 
9
A: ie8 var w= window.open() - "Message: Invalid argument."

StefanThis is an old posting but maybe still useful for someone. I had the same error message. In the end the problem was an invalid name for the second argument, i.e., I had a line like: window.open('/somefile.html', 'a window title', 'width=300'); The problem was 'a window title' and it worked fin...

Completely wrong in its assumptions about how the argument works, but the highest voted answer in the thread.
 
12:54 PM
hello all
nice to see @Nick and @Andy here
 
....wow
 
Hello @Sarfraz
 
that's pretty bad @andy
hola
 
@NickCraver, @AndyE'shead, the power of democracy :)
 
oh sorry :)
sure agreed
 
12:55 PM
@Sarfraz: you're doing well in rep at the moment, you were top 5 last month :)
 
yeah thanks
hitting an averate 300 to 350
it was 500+ other day
with a bounty
 
Cool
@Benjol: lol :p
 
nice to see you guys discussing about javascript/jquery and answers/questions
 
finding questions I forgot I asked, it's like brand new SO content :)
 
12:57 PM
8
Q: Ethical Software Installs - Affecting other software

Nick CraverI'd like to get a community view on this, as I was personally very offended at the way some software I have used for a long time recently changed in behavior. In this particular case, it's the .Net Reflector now updated by RedGate. I've used it for years, I'm sure many of you have as well, howe...

that was definitely in response to being pissed off at an installer
 
Don't see much of T.J. Crowder these days
 
same, not sure what he's up to
i miss T.J and Lutz :)
 
yeah he seems to be away for few days
 
Yeah, they always gave solid answers.
 
he is really good at javascript/jquery like both of you
 
12:58 PM
oo the other lutz
 
8
Q: Is Stack Overflow a type of game?

JohnBI hope this question isn't perceived the wrong way. I am sincerely interested in hearing some of your thoughts about the title of this post. Sometimes, answering a question on Stack Overflow is an exercise in speed as well as accuracy. If you see a question that isn't answered yet, or doesn't ...

 
reflector guy, forget his first name
Lutz Roeder
@andy - hahaha
i think @marc calced my meta rep it changed
doh, wrong site
 
I also find Pointy at point with his answers related to javascript/jquery stackoverflow.com/users/182668/pointy
 
lol what did it change to?
@Sarfraz: yeah, but his gravatar creeps me out :p
 
1056 -> 1044 i think, as long as I have 1k+ on meta I'm set...want to see up/down ratios
YES! that avatar is freaking creepy
glad it's not just me thinking that
 
1:01 PM
@Nick: i can't wait to have close rights on MSO tbh
 
are the close reasons different on meta?
 
There's "as noise and pointless". But mostly I see a lot of dupes
@Nick: just figured out where your downvotes went!
Votes on wiki posts don't show up in the audit
 
sob
wonder how i find those
 
I would start with wiki questions you might have answered and downvoted answers you disagree with:
or try some of the popular wiki questions you might have visited/favourited. "Hidden features of..." anyone?
Well, I'm off for a bit to get some Actual Work™ done. Catch you all later @NickC, @Sarfraz, @Benjol
 
1:19 PM
@AndyE'shead, bye
 
@AndyE'shead ok sure
at SO for the moment, c ya
 
 
3 hours later…
U62
4:29 PM
More mead!
 
 
1 hour later…
5:41 PM
@NickCraver: bug with .text() in jQuery?
2
A: Accessing script block with jquery

Andy E$("#divId script") works fine for selecting the element, but here's the problem: $("#divId script").text() doesn't work in IE because jQuery isn't set up to handle the cross browser discrepancies of text nodes in script elements. IE requires that you access the .text property of the script eleme...

 
5:54 PM
I don't believe that's a jquery bug, it's unspecified behavior via the spec, the same as .innerHTML isn't completely standard either.
 
@Nick: Maybe you're right, but innerHTML is part of the standard now, and it is implemented more or less the same in all browsers. Even still, jQuery's supposed to handle cross browser issues like this one. I would consider that text() not working consistently across browsers is a bug.
 
If i recall correctly, some browsers won't let you access the content of script elements at all...
n/m - i see he's talking about inline scripts, not loaded scripts
 
6:10 PM
Just wondering if I should file it or not
I guess it can't hurt
 
.html() is a decent work-around, but there are legit reasons to use .text()
 
6:24 PM
Hi all, Is anyone going to the Guathon on Friday in London? weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2010/08/02/…
 
6:47 PM
hello world?
is it just me or is the chat page overly grey and dull? me thinks it needs some colour
 
Woo! Canadian!
 
??
 
Or... English?
Hmm...
I just saw "colour" and I considered it quite refreshing.
 
not for the first time, I wish I could edit other people's comments here...
 
7:27 PM
@Andy - sorry, been buried in a JSON serializer the past few hours, I'll take a look once I wrap up a few more features... .Net 4 dynamic/expando object = uber handy :)
 
 
3 hours later…
10:27 PM
It sure sucks that you can suggest a tag-synonym if the synonym has more tags than the original. It makes voting kind of a waste of time.
0
Q: We need one place to see and vote on tag synonyms

Lance RobertsThere should be one place we can go to see tag synonyms that need to be voted on. How will I ever know to go to a specific tag to vote?

 
10:48 PM
OK, modded the last request and added a different one.
 
11:00 PM
@Lance you around?
 
so what exactly is your issue with synonyms Im not following
 
The first issue is that you can't suggest a synonym if it has a higher count than the master.
 
you can still post on meta if thats the case
 
There are times (probably numerous) when the low count tag should win.
yep, that's what I ended up doing.
 
11:02 PM
sure but that needs to be discussed
 
But think about it, they all get voted on, so why should it matter what the count is, it will get voted one way or the other.
 
the idea is that only non-controversial stuff can be suggested on the sites
 
The problem I think is that the voting isn't exposed very well, so niche tags like mine might not get any votes at all for their synonyms.
 
@Lance the other way can be really dangerous eg. what if users suggested and got c# => csharp approved
 
So I'm made a few posts for that.
 
11:03 PM
big mess
 
I assumed that one a tag was a master that it couldn't be synonymed.
But if they were exposed to more people, like Meta, then they would get clobbered there, just auto-expose it.
 
we could look at reducing the voting reqs on less popular tags
the list is too long to expose on meta ...
 
Yeh, I did notice that.
 
sorry on a call (back soon)
 
It might have to wait until the first waves are done.
 

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